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 No.74[View All]

LINUX'!!'
>what is it?
An operating system that respects your freedom
>why would I use it?
If you are tired of having your OS use you and always wanted to use your computer instead
>What do you mean by freedom?
Write your own programs. use source code from the internet in seconds. update when you want to not when it tells you.
Want to run a website? cool! you can set one up in minutes.
Want to adjust your hardware to your liking? Awesome!
Want to stop or make a new feature to a program you use every day? Go for it!

Its your computer! use it how you want!
81 posts and 17 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.770

>>122
press alt-f2 (essentially changing to a diffrent terminal, alt-f1 to go back, its sometimes alt-shift-f# or something else), if the font problem persists idk. If its normal in the new terminal, use a diffrent DE, I recommend gnome3 if your new to Arch.

 No.771

File: 1516753031068.jpg (69.53 KB, 581x974, internet of the toilet.jpg)

>>761
Every more popular OS is fucked even worse, their hordes of engineers just keep the surface gui skin from springing too many holes that let the bullshit of whats actually going on leak out. GNU doesnt do that as well cause they dont have the same armies of chimps maintaining a ""UX"" illusion, as they're not looking for your normie families dependence and user data.
You've realized how completely, totally backwards and fucked up software is, congratulations. I urge you to contemplate the idea of this fuckedness as an extension of how backwards and fucked up modern societies entire philosophy around the construction and use of tools is.

If you ever feel like using a computer again, try learning plan9.

 No.777

>>771
but they do, just look at how it's all GNOME and KDE and just about every major distro comes bloated to hell and back for a blanket.
>You've realized how completely, totally backwards and fucked up software is, congratulations
Yes I'm all about maths now don't show me any software ever again. Though honestly I advocate for going back to the days of assembler when things made sense.
> try learning plan9.
I wish I had hardware that can run plan9, sometime maybe

 No.778

>>777
>Yes I'm all about maths now don't show me any software ever again. Though honestly I advocate for going back to the days of assembler when things made sense.
I'd advocate going the functional programming route. It's like math too.
Only the software that legitimately can't be written otherwise should be written in ways that can't be proven to be correct.

Also yes, systemd does brick laptops by that r/w efivars mounting """"feature"""".

>>762
Is this related to Intel's fuckups with branch prediction leaks?
Why anyone trusts or ever trusted intel is completely beyond me. They're the absolute bottom of the processor industry, having assloads of money to throw at problems being their only reason for any viable product existing.

>>771
>try learning plan9
I just want a plan9-like system but built around lisp instead of C and C++. Imagine an acme where the commands and programs you run by clicks are actually lisp code.
I'm having far too much fun selectively compiling functions into a running program with SLIMV, I want a computing environment where this type of wizardry is the norm rather than something esoteric and unheard of.

 No.779

>>778
>They're the absolute bottom of the processor industry
yakuza stop this madness :^) btw znc is up again, sorry about the downtime

 No.780

File: 1517363958874.jpg (203.86 KB, 640x453, Young_theodore_kaczynski.jpg)

>>778
there isnt a line of c++ in plan9 because plan9 doesnt have a c++ compiler. the pain of working at google without a c++ compiler is why some of its devs abandoned it.
I personally prefer sam+rio etc etc anyways, though.
>>777
you ignored the most important part. come on, you're into math, you're halfway there.

 No.784

>>761
Systemd is not a GNU project. Also, a Thinkpad… tried reflashing its firmware? It's basically the only thing the OS/Kernel has the access rights needed to brick.

 No.786

>>779
T-that was not me argman.
Also sorry for not showing up lately, I'm a wagie now.
>>780
>you ignored the most important part
I've always liked math before I got into the horrid mess of software.
Lately Linear Algebra and Geometry are far more engaging to me than interfacing with .so files.

 No.787

File: 1517899489146.png (4.92 KB, 800x600, pretty.png)

Are there any good new wm or de that dont just copy windows or osx? (i know of tiled window managers like i3 and bspwm already)

 No.788

>>787
what does 'new' have to do with it?
cwm is the best window manager on unix btw.

 No.789

>>788
"new" meaning one thats trying something new, not necessarily in regards to time but uniqueness.

 No.796

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>>787
You might want to take a look at OpenBox. It's got a lot of the easy accessibility of DEs, but with a more minimal approach like WMs. It looks nothing like Windows or Mac.

 No.797

I used to have this one crappy notebook that couldn't even handle Windows XP properly. It was my mom's, but she got tired of it because it really sucked and it froze all the time. So I asked my now boyfriend, at that time acquaintance, who at the time was still living with his parents and was hilariously piss poor, about a linux distro that could help. He gave me Lubuntu. Holy shit, all of a sudden this thing could play videos and I could also run VNs in there (I actually played the first Higurashi on that computer), it was great. I had a really good experience.

I also like Mint. I used to always have a dualboot with both Windows and Mint with Mate.

 No.799

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I've used CRUX for about 10 years now. Got so tired of playing around with USE flags in Gentoo and binary packages in other distributions with broken dependencies or file collisions. Simple distributions like CRUX doesn't have a lot of packages, and doesn't always work flawlessly, but due to their simplicity, I find them so easy to fix, and I think I spend less time "working" on fixing things with CRUX than I do with other more complicated distributions. The simplicity makes it easy to make new packages quickly as well, and I don't need to know much more than how to compile the application to do it.

I currently only use it on my laptop and home server, but I want to install CRUX on my new desktop soon too. Decided I wanted to try out Fedora on my desktop when I got it, and that one's driving me crazy. There are lots of packages, but not for the software that I want, and systemd makes everything complicated and somewhat obfuscated. Doesn't feel as nice as editing simple rc files. Wanted to try Lunar and Source Mage before I moved to CRUX ages ago, so I think I might give those a go too, but I'll probably keep those in virtual machines.

Systemd is really annoying, and many other things like GRUB2 and pulseaudio is annoying to deal with as well. I might just be a luddite, but I mostly think simple and old software is any fun. New software got too damn complicated.

 No.801

>>74
>>295
I highly recommend slackware. Stable as hell.

 No.803

how did you guys learned the terminal? should i study bash or something?

 No.804

>>803
Nothing better than man pages in my opinion. In case you don't know what those are, you can type 'man [program]', e.g. 'man rm', and it will tell you all about how to use said program.

With that in mind, all the core utilities are usually stored in /bin. So, if you have a free afternoon, do:
ls /bin
and then man all the program names which come up.

Maybe you're already past the basics, though. In that case, yeah, learning bash scripting would be good. I can't help you much there, though.

 No.807

>>803
I read a book about GNU/Linux and UNIX a long time ago, and that introduced me to basic stuff like ls and cd. Since I was already used to command and the old MSDOS utilities, getting used to basic usage was simply remembering to use ls instead of dir. The book also mentioned basic stuff like aliases and libraries. Other than that I simply toyed around editing files in /etc and doing as >>804 said, you can learn a lot from reading man pages. In addition to man pages, you can also get basic information about a program and available flags by appending -h or –help to the command.

These days, there should be loads of good articles on basic shell usage. I thought the articles on funtoo.org are fairly decent. I don't think it explains the basic commands for navigating around the filesystem, but it talks about variables and such.

https://www.funtoo.org/Bash_by_Example,_Part_1

 No.808

>>807
There is also this article about the fundamentals.

https://www.funtoo.org/Linux_Fundamentals,_Part_1

Not sure how proficient you are, but you can get far with just the basics. Knowing scripting is useful, but I don't think it is required for most users. There are some neat tricks one can learn through scripting tho. Like when you want to make a backup of a config file before you start editing it.

cp /etc/fstab{,.bak} instead of cp /etc/fstab /etc/fstab.bak.

 No.813

>>804
>>807
>>808
Thanks, guys, i'm gonna check these out. Btw, i'm at the basics level, using ubuntu on my second notebook.

 No.815

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>>803
Mastering the terminal is achieved through trial, error, and persistence. Read as much as you can about every new word or acronym you come across. Don't be afraid to break things, either. Just keep on truckin'.

 No.950

>>200
You can set it as your login shell, but keep /bin/sh as bash or dash. The `chsh' command is what you want to use, but in my experience editing /etc/passwd manually is more reliable. GUI terminal emulators may require additional configuration.
>>309
Just check a list of all your installed packages, and delete the ones you don't want. If you use gentoo you can edit your /var/lib/portage/world to remove old crap you don't need, and then run emerge –depclean.
>>799
Alpine has a similar simplicity to it. I've just switched to it from Gentoo, because I was a retard and I deleted some important libraries. I was unable to fix the problem manually within a reasonable timeframe and I didn't feel like compiling everything from scratch, so I backed up /home and switched to Alpine.

 No.951

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So I'm using Linux Mint Cinnamon, is there a way to show thumbnails in the filepicker? If not, what distribution should I use that does? My PC is very old, like, it is an HP pavilion g6. With about 4 gigs of RAM.

 No.952

>>951
Thumbnails like that is something people have been asking about for a long time now. There are patches floating around I think, but nobody with power within the GTK project seems too interested in adding such a feature themselves. I get around that issue by using my regular file manager and drag the file I want over to the application I want it open in (that's also something that can be inconsistent, not everything supports drag and drop).

QT applications (that would be anything KDE and related applications) has a file picker that supports thumbnails. So it might be worth trying QT and KDE alternatives to the applications you use. Kubuntu comes bundled with KDE, and I'm sure you can use KDE with Mint as well.

I want to enjoy free software on my desktop systems, but I think these kinds of things makes free software a little annoying outside of CLI tools. I wish desktop environments were a lot more consistent and supported these kinds of features.

 No.1104

bump

 No.1105

File: 1536053214351.gif (578 B, 192x80, dwm_official_logo.gif)

as far as the desktop is concerned I can't imagine using anything other than dwm on Linux or *BSD. a really great piece of software.

running Crux on a spare T60 that I toy around with, I like how hands off it is, and I got tired of dealing with portage when it was running Gentoo.

Arch on my desktop.

I've had Openbsd running on those machines and more at various times but the lack of (or pains with) various software made me switch back to Linux land.

 No.1524

Linux is a kernel, not an operating system

 No.1527

>>1524
most people already know that dumbass, but it's easier to refer to various Linux-based operating systems as just "Linux", you think I'm gonna say "Linux based Operating system Ubuntu" every time in casual conversation

 No.1528

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>>1527
You should say GNU/Linux. It shows that you care about software freedom.

 No.1529

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>>1524
>Linux is a kernel, not an operating system

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux.
Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component
of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell
utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day,
without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU
which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are
not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a
part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system
that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run.
The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself;
it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is
normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system
is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux"
distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

 No.1530

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>>1529
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, Systemd/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Systemd plus Linux.Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component
of a fully functioning Systemd system made useful by the Systemd corelibs, shell
utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the Systemd system every day,
without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of Systemd
which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are
not aware that it is basically the Systemd system, developed by the Systemd Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a
part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system
that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run.
The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself;
it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is
normally used in combination with the Systemd operating system: the whole system
is basically Systemd with Linux added, or Systemd/Linux. All the so-called "Linux"
distributions are really distributions of Systemd/Linux.

 No.1531

>sed -i "s/GNU/Systemd/g"
>still works as a shitpost

 No.1534

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>>1530
I'd just like to interject for a moment.

What you're referring to as Sushichan, is in fact, vichan/Sushichan, or as I've recently taken to calling it, vichan plus Sushichan.
Sushichan is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component
of a fully functioning vichan system made useful by the vichan corelibs, shell
utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the vichan system every day,
without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of vichan
which is widely used today is often called "Sushichan", and many of its users are
not aware that it is basically the vichan system, developed by the vichan Project.

There really is a Sushichan, and these people are using it, but it is just a
part of the system they use. Sushichan is the kernel: the program in the system
that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run.
The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself;
it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Sushichan is
normally used in combination with the vichan operating system: the whole system
is basically vichan with Sushichan added, or vichan/Sushichan. All the so-called "Sushichan"
distributions are really distributions of vichan/Sushichan.

 No.1568

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after a couple days trying to figure it out, I finally managed to get binutils to compile, turns out I just needed to install a sort of "development" package in my host OS (instead of just bare gcc). Now I can get along with building LFS! Yay!
Right now I'm doing the next package in line, gcc, I've been following along, I hope I don't run into some wird issue…

 No.1570

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I tried out Guix SD in a VM a few days ago. Being able to specify a whole system configuration in a Scheme file like this is soooo nice. From one of these files you can rebuild the current system, generate an ISO of the built system, or even a Docker image. If I picked up a new laptop I could just copy this file onto it, run 'guix system reconfigure', and it'll reconfigure the system as it's running, whilst still providing a menu entry in the bootloader for the old system if something goes wrong.
Only real downside is it /is/ slower than the equivalent Arch or Debian process, although Guile 3.0's JIT should speed it up a bit when it finally makes it in to Guix SD. Also using a nonfree Linux kernel for WiFi drivers and the like requires adding the third party nonguix repo, although its so well packaged that it feels vanilla.

As a side note I've been thining of picking up a cute Thinkpad T6x or T2xx tablet as a companion to my mbp and running Guix on it.

 No.1571

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>>1570
I've been using NixOS for half a year and it's been so pleasant. My whole configuration lives in just one place and nix-shell has become indispensable - with lorri you can man of tastely change a folder and it will change your environment, so useful! I set up my system to download packages from a stable channel, while my user is subscribed to an unstable one. This way I have stable and rolling releases at the same time.

 No.1572

>>1570

I used to use Guix on my x200. I agree that having the whole system configuration as scheme is super nice, but I stopped using it because of how Gnu it was, I wanted something lighter and with better documentation. It was nice while it lasted though.

 No.1573

>>1572
What to do you mean lighter?

 No.1574

File: 1587677255934.png (1.45 MB, 1126x10000, gnu-longcat.png)

>>1573
Not using the GNU coreutils, libc, and so on. In a lot of ways I know that it just sounds over the top and hipster, but I don't use many of the features that have been added to the GNU utilities and their size makes it more confusing for me to look through and modify the code.

In a similar vein, I don't like GNU C style, nor the Texinfo documentation format. I like man pages but I wouldn't mind an alternative system if it was put together better than the way info is (although I concede that for the time they did a great job with a hyperlinked document system).

Essentially I'm just making a fuss about the fact that lightweight tools which use less than a percentage of my computer's power are too bloated for me to jerk off to them.

 No.1575

>>1574
Soo what do you use then?

 No.1576

>>1575
OpenBSD usually.

 No.1587

I'm currently stuck using Arch, which I have been since 2016 when I bought the meme and started using it full time. I'm stuck because I know all the commands and relearning new ones seems like a pain.

I'm sure when my paranoia flares up and work ease up I might try Gentoo again.

 No.1588

>>1576
What's your use-case? I've been toying with the idea of OpenBSD for a while (long-time Void user).

 No.1589

>>1587
If you're into the meme distros and source building, I find that Guix carried it out a lot nicer than Gentoo.

>>1588
Use case as in what do I do? I'm a philosophy student and hobbyist programmer, likes low-level stuff, lisp, etc. I write most of my stuff in mg, whether source code or prose (which is usually in a man of tastele markdown-like language that I translate to roff). I used to play some Stardew Valley and Minecraft ,which took a bit of effort to get working but were fine, that was on 6.4 though so I don't know what it's like now. Obviously some websites. I do a lot of stuff offline so I don't have many demands.

I've heard that Void is quite BSD like and man of tastele to install, OpenBSD also has a very man of tastele installation procedure and can even automatically partition the disk, and is of course very BSD-like. The base system feels more cohesive than any Linux I've ever used and much cleaner, despite coming with multiple choices (2 shells, 3 editors, 3 window managers are installed by default). Even so it's light and small. Some of the infrastructure is built with Perl and noticeably slow, in particular the package manager is a lot slower than even things like apt. Then again, the goal of the OS isn't speed.

There's nothing to lose by giving it a try, it's one of my favourites, let me know if you want to know anything else :)

 No.1590

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>>1571
Might give Nix a go in a vm too, I've splurged on keycaps again so the thinkpad is on hold now.

>>1572
>>1574
I wrote up a big reply about Plan 9 but lost it… oh well. My main point was that I found Plan9/9front most interesting as a system where all parts work together in ideological unison, in this case under the 'everything is a file' banner, much more cohesively than say most GNU/Linuxes. Other stuff it does is interesting, but the cohesiveness that it executes it with is the best bit. Makes me think of a well set up Emacs or the BSDs.

Recently I was thinking about how despite easily having the knowledge and technology, our computers are still very isolated from one another. E.g. sharing a .mp4 of a movie file across a local network has been possible for decades, but I still find the easiest way is to dig out a USB stick. I suppose this speaks to more of a societal/economic cause than what's innately possible with our computers of the day. Sharing CPU, storage, and the likes across a network as Plan 9 and co (Lisp Machines, Inferno, a bunch of research OS's) do would be fascinating. Imagine getting home, opening your laptop, and immediately having access to 10x the processing power, and seamlessly accessing your at home media storage.
I am kind of a zealot about microkernels though, so couldn't quite say a Plan 9 world is a utopia hehe.

 No.1591

>>1589
Thank you for the detailed response, helps a lot :)

 No.1592

hey guys
So I started using linux some time ago but dropped it because of some driver problems, now I'm back at it again with debian on a vm and enjoying the experience so far
But most of the time it feels like I have no idea of what I'm doing, I'd like to get more familiar with the operating system my computer runs and how it works, if that makes sense. What would be the best way to accomplish this? man of tastely by using it, or is there any useful resource you guys would recommend?

 No.1593

>>1592
You learn Linux by solving problems you encounter while doing common tasks. Copying solutions from stackoverflow is alright, as long as you read explanation. You will not learn how computer works just by using Linux. I suggest you to learn bash, vim/emacs and system structure - all of that is just basics. Then you are all set for programming.

Helpful resources: man command and archwiki.

 No.1594

>>1592
Came across this a while back, maybe it'd hit the spot:
https://linuxjourney.com/

 No.1595

>>1594
>>1593
thanks for the helpful advice :D



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