I have major gender dysphoria and its certainly a drag on life, and I just want to rant about it, and you guys are all nice (oh yeah so fair warning this is just me going on about my problems, also this may be really long and I don't know if there's a character limit so this may be multiple parts).
I'm just never going to look or feel right, I don't think. Because I just happened to be born with this mental illness. As a kid, I always liked to imagine myself as a girl for some reason. In internet circles I'd pretend I was a girl, for no real reason other then preference. It wasn't like I was doing it for kicks, saying I was a guy after flirting with someone, i really just liked being a girl instead. I lived in a pretty liberal area, so I found out about trannies by middle school, and by age 14 i was pretty sure I was one. Unfortunately, I was a very early bloomer, and puberty hit me really hard. I was 5'10" at 14 and only kept growing, grew facial hair in middle school, broad shoulders, square jaw, everything. And I hated it as much then as I did now. I grew my hair out and to this day have real nice hair with perfect curls but that was kind of the end of things I actually liked about myself. With my frame, nobody ever really mistook me for a girl, even from behind. Guy friends I had that were super short or just feminine in general got mistaken for girls without even trying or wanting to and I felt really jealous. When I was 15 I started having friends call me "Abby" online and told them about some of this. I started getting that feeling of "being a women trapped in a man's body" people talk about as opposed to "being a man that want to be a woman," a change you don't really notice until it happens. That felt pretty nice. Every now and then, when I was home alone, I'd sneak into my sister's room and wear her clothes and look in the mirror for a while. I stopped because it felt like I was doing something perverted even though I wasn't attracted to women (more on that later), but it felt nice to take pictures of myself in dresses, even though I deleted them afterwards. but…yea. I just really hated being a man. Sometimes I would curl up and stare at all the hair on my legs and nearly have a breakdown over that.(Part 1/?)
That was most of high school, watching myself continuously look more masculine but not doing anything about it, because although I lived in a liberal area I was in a right-wing family that wouldn't even consider letting my take puberty blockers or anything. And that persists to this day. Never pierced my ears or dyed my hair pink, even though I had wanted to since Freshman year, I just kept putting it off. I have friends on Discord that I have call me Abby, though they know my real name and that I'm a guy and stuff. I still hate myself. I still have that long hair but that's it. And the increase in girly boys depresses me, because again, some guys pass as female on accident. And with a little trying, a lot do perfectly. Femboys increase in numbers and its cool to see people enjoying wearing skirts I guess but I hate that people can just put one on and look fine stead of like a creep like me. I remember once I got some lipstick, just to try it out. I thought it might make me look a little girlier. I shaved, which I try to regularly but it really doesn't feel like it's worth doing at this point, then put on the lipstick. I had high hopes but what actually happened is I looked awful. Terrible. I looked better as a guy with a beard, because at least like that you can tell yourself it can be improved with makeup and shaving, but when you do those and look bad, you don't have that. That discouraged me from actually learning makeup. I have a friend that's into crossdressing and stuff as well and knows I am, and one time he asked why I don't shave my legs if I want to feel more like a girl. It actually took me a moment to remember that for a lot of people, the hair doesn't grow back so much by the end of the day, and also that they don't have as much leg to shave as I do since I'm large.
I'm also into men, but I don't "feel" like a gay person, you know? I feel like gay romances are kind of weird and I ought to be in a straight relationship. But I want to be the woman. So the feeling that I'm never going to be a woman, even just by pronoun preference publicly, causes the feeling that I'm never going to be loved. I know its stupid, I know this is all stupid, I know I shouldn't feel like I can't love because I don't look right. I know I shouldn't worry so goddamn much about something I probably can't really do anything about.I really shouldn't, its a waste of time at the end of the day. But it just feels so big, and so important to me, gender is always on my mind at least a little. I still have a slight bit of hope at least. I'm still young, not out of college yet. I like to imagine myself in outfits I think are cute, and its hard for me to envision myself as a man in the future, to imagine a future where I don't transition.
Anyways, if you've actually read this far, then thanks I guess. I just don't have anyone to to go on about all this to. I really needed to say it somehow, somewhere.(Part 2/2)
>then put on the lipstick. I had high hopes but what actually happened is I looked awful
Your story reminds me of that one comic where a guy buys lingerie and imagines himself turning into a woman as soon as he puts it on, then looks in the mirror only to see a man in lingerie and gives up. The comic has a secret continuation that the author forgot to draw: the man goes back to the mirror and sees what exactly he's lacking. He looks at pictures of trannies/femboys online and notices their posture. He learns about face and body shapes, makeup and clothes that go with them, goes on a diet, isolates certain body parts in exercise and tries again. He then sees an androgynous entity in the mirror. Then he notices most trannies/femboys don't post face or wear a mask. He strikes a pose, looks from the neck down and sees a girl. He then finds out about photoshop and earns 120k a month from onlyfans.
Your friends in middle school got mistaken for girls precisely because that's a time where changes start happening but haven't set. The one reason you've never went through that is exactly because you're tall, height being a trait associated with guys (even women hate being tall which is BS because height only makes women hotter imo).
99.(9)% of trannies and "femboys" are smoke and mirrors (or angles and filters if you want to be web 2.0 about it). Even that picture you posted has all the staples I mentioned: notice how the waist turns one direction while his shoulders point another. Notice how the hair and mask cover 90% of his face. The waist line on the outfit is high, giving the impression of long legs. The volume of the skirt combined with the favorable pose gives him a good shoulder/hip ratio, in turn his apparent wide hips combined with the high waist (and his arm covering part of his waist on top of that!) giving him a good waist/hip ratio. Boil it down and the only genuinely feminine thing about this picture is the shaved ZR and arms. Even if you exclude all the possible effort it took to get in shape (assuming he actually has a nice ass under that skirt), taking this picture took a lot more effort than the model is willing to admit. Show me a femboy and I'll show you a dude.
Or you can watch idolmaster (2011) episode 17.
Stop giving a shit about this.
Much harder than it sounds, but the less you care the better your life will be.
Learn into Buddhism, mindfulness/meditation and you can be freed from suffering, after all, this suffering is just imaginary.
This inner conflict between your ego and your identity can be resolved. The path towards it is acceptance, and ordering the mess that is your inner mind.
With this goal in mind, any choices you make or would have made, become of no concern, and you can just focus on being yourself, freely and easily. Whatever that means in the end.
I'm just gonna go through and post random thoughts. First and foremost, you should probably get off 4chan. Even if you don't agree with anything they say, it's poison to your subconscious. You're not going to learn to like yourself by listening to hitler worshipping children talk about how trans people are smelly perverts all day.
Looking godawful the first time you try makeup is completely normal. It takes time to work out what looks good on your face, you can't just slather on bright red lipstick and look decent. Try looking at what works for women who look like you, there are a lot of pretty women with big jaws and cheekbones stuff. Pic related is just the first things I found on an image search, notice how they don't try to hide their face or ignore it by dressing overly cutesy like little girls (that's a big mistake that trans people tend to make). Models tend to have unusual faces, maybe look at how they do things. HRT will also help a bit by changing your skin consistency. It should help a bit with the hair problem too (although in the meantime you could also try just wearing opaque tights).
If you care about passing then the most important thing that overrides everything else is voice. Watch this youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynFqjE2AEGk
. She gets face surgery at some point, but before that she still passes completely because her voice is so feminine. I probably forgot to say something but I'm out of time now.>>2945
I mean this is also an option, everyone should do some amount of meditation and really everyone would be better off retreating to the mountains to be a monk, but if you're not gonna do that then you still need to be happy in the corporeal world.
Sorry to hear it sushi, that's really rough. Just looking at your last couple paragraphs though, i wouldn't say it's stupid. Everyone has a need to be loved and respected for what they are and be confident in their own body, and even if you lost the genetic lottery it's still a legitimate need and problem, and something a lot of people have made progress on.
Have you spent any time on specifically trans spaces online? I'm sure there are a lot of people who you can relate to more than some randos, even if sushichan is a pretty nice place, and it's good to have a community you fit into. Only place i have much awareness of is (yes, i know, reddit) https://old.reddit.com/r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns/
but it seems to be pretty positive and people post good stuff from it elsewhere, and it seems to have links to a lot of other places on the sidebar
My apologies if this comes off as rude, I can understand that it must be difficult having a dissonance between what you feel you are and how you appear to be.
Due to the neuroplasticity of the mind, wouldn't it be easier to get some therapy to help you feel comfortable in your body and feel more like what you appear to be, rather than going through the effort to change your body itself, which is much less flexible to change post-puberty than your mind?
I too wish to be the little girl.>>2948
Neuroplasticity isn't that versatile. At one point neural architecture is defined and it's difficult/impossible to change it. Still, not a totally terrible idea. Something like >>2945
could bring some peace of mind.>>2944>99.(9)% of trannies and "femboys" are smoke and mirrors (or angles and filters if you want to be web 2.0 about it)
Women on the internet too. Back in my day when iphones weren't a thing, the daily show was culturally relevant and corporations weren't forcing web lingo we called favorable selfies fat girl angle shots. I haven't paid attention to cultural trends and how the 00s generation grew up but I get the feeling they are more easily fooled by their screens than previous generations. I guess they missed all the emo myspace girls, true pioneers in researching the perfect way to take and edit pictures. On the other hand I can't be blissfully ignorant and enjoy the pictures on the screen without thinking "nice anterior pelvic tilt lmao"
I wish I was born a girl. I don't consider myself trans in anyway and accept that I'm male though.
I don't think seriously wanting to become the other sex is a healthy or realistic pursuit, but it sounds like it's causing you a lot of pain, so I hope you're able to work through these issues somehow. It's okay to have fantasies, it's okay to be gay, and it's okay to have feminine interests, even as a ostensibly masculine man.
It's hardly the same thing, but being short and unable to grow proper facial hair sometimes causes me a lot of anguish. But our lot in life is just something we have to accept.
You're not "a woman trapped inside a man's body" (which isn't even a thing anyway, what does that mean???) you just have a negative self-image and feel ashamed to be gay. Your conservative parents taught you that it's not okay to like "girly" things and probably had a lot of homophobic views. The best thing you can do for yourself is stop identifying as "trans" before this goes too far. Once you've gotten surgeries, there's no going back and unfortunately there's a huge number of detransitioners whose stories you don't get to hear because they're being suppressed. A lot of trans people take their own lives because they finally realize after many surgeries that it's physically impossible to become the other sex and they're forever dissatisfied with how they look. Instead of getting to that stage, learn to love yourself. Nobody else out there is going to tell you that because they're trying to make money from you or it doesn't fit their agenda. Surround yourself with SUPPORTIVE friends, come out as gay and move if you feel you're in an area where it would be unsafe for you to be out. Explore what clothes/hobbies you enjoy and don't treat them as "girly" pursuits. Meet other gay men who will show you that your interests are normal and nothing to be ashamed of. Spend lots of time outside of your conservative area and you'll start to realize that things aren't some binary that has been fed to us about "man" and "woman" or "gay" and "straight" or "right" and "wrong".
It's okay to be gay.
It's okay to be attracted to men.
It's okay to want to dress well.
It's okay to act in a way that isn't the conservative, stereotypical image of a "man".
And you won't get this from anywhere else on the internet so I'm going to say it here: it's okay to detransition.
Define being a woman. I'm serious. What does it mean for you to be a woman in a man's body? What is trapped in there? If you're gay, you're girly, you like flower, this is all fine. This doesn't mean you're a woman. It's alright to be gay, it's alright to be girly, it's alright to be womanly. But that doesn't make you a woman in a man's body. Accept who you are, learn to love yourself. All transitioning is going to do for you is make you trapped again, because you're not solving the core problem.
I used to identify as trans so I relate to a lot of what you're saying. It could very well be that you are transgender but I think its good to assess your situation and feelings first. Try to think why you want to be a girl, beyond a simple "it just feels right" way. Do you think that people would treat you better as a girl? Do you dislike 'you' as in your personality, mannerisms, ect. If transition would be possible, do you see it more as becoming a new person or simply you as a girl? I've talked to a few people about issues like this and usually there's an underlying reason as to why they want to be a girl. Something I've applied to a lot of my problems is the realization that specific desires are more or less not innate to us. Society shapes what we want in life, as well as the reasons we feel inadequate and desire something.
As other people mentioned, imageboards are usually not be best place to talk about this stuff, though sushi is probably one of the better ones as you wont be called a degenerate freak or whatever word of the week 4chan is using. No matter the outcome, don't hate yourself for thinking about this stuff. These are some remarkably common thoughts and you aren't the first to be in this situation. Don't let people stop you from being happy.
If someone is fat and wishes they were thin, then the general advice would be to exercise, eat better, and work towards the goal of becoming thin. Similarly, if you have a masculine body and wish you had a more feminine body, then I think the answer should be to transition and work towards the goal of having a more feminine body.
Sure, there are things about your body that you can't change, and you should learn to accept those things, but there are also things that you can change, and there's no reason that you shouldn't work towards changing those things if you want to.
I think the problem here is that transitioning fucks with you in a way that just exercising doesn't. Moreover, the human body, while it likes having fat, isn't really accustomed to BEING fat, and your body and mind suffers for it. While gender dysphoria is definitely painful on the mind, transitioning can be even moreso while also wrecking your body.
Nice post, I appreciate your perspective.>specific desires are more or less not innate to us
I'm intrigued by that statement. How did you come to that conclusion and/or do you have any recommended reading on the subject?
Also I forgot to say thanks for posting, OP. I'm fairly liberal and everything, but gender dysphoria is one thing I have a hard time comprehending. I really empathized with your post, so thank you for sharing.
A lot of people seem to be assuming that 'transitioning' is a climactic and fundamentally *biological* event, somebody just gets their dick cut off and totally turns around how they present to the world in one day. That's not the case, it's a long difficult and fundamentally *social* process (look how long it takes children to learn to do 'being a man' or 'being a woman' right) and there's no chance that someone could either do it by accident or pursue it if they're not serious. There's totally room for someone to experiment with what exactly they need
For example, there's gender dysphoria that can't be treated with anything other than changing the body. But there's also dysphoria that *does* have to at least some extent a social or psychological root, which seems to be what most people here expect (dysphoria is very weird and hard to relate to, but everyone has psychological problems and social pressures). Ultimately though, even if there's none of that and somebody "just wants to" be in the world as a woman or a man, it's still as valid as the people for whom doing gender the way society expects is the best fit, and the most important aspects of that are often not about what body parts you do or don't have
Bad analogy. It would be more accurate to compare being trans to having anorexia. If someone was anorexic and wanted to lose weight, we wouldn't advise them to get lipo and keep dieting.
Both have a mental issue with regards to their physical appearance not matching their idealized version of themselves. Both suffer from delusions and engage in self-harm. People with eating disorders are taught not to engage in destructive behaviors and to love/respect the body that they're in. Why don't we apply the same logic to trans people? It makes no sense. If surgery is seen as the solution to a trans person "being born in the wrong body" then surely the solution to eating disorders is to let anorexic/bulimic people starve themselves to death.
>>2960>If surgery is seen as the solution to a trans person "being born in the wrong body"
You seem to be pretty misinformed about what transitioning is. It isn't just surgery. In fact, most trans people don't even get surgery at all, and the ones who do only do so once they're very far into the transition process, far past the point where they would have turned back if they had any doubts about it.
And you seem to be misinformed about detransitioners.
Become a complete biological girl through pure magic.
It's entirely possible, but you first need to discipline your brain and body.
I have met people who have accomplished this. Learn to transcend the persistent illusion of reality and then alter it.
Stop watching porn (audio, visual, literature, etc.),
Do hatha yoga,https://terebess.hu/english/Hatha-Yoga-Pradipika-Muktibodhananda.pdf
If possible do a juice fast.https://www.pdfdrive.com/how-to-keep-slim-healthy-and-young-with-juice-fasting-e158470670.html
Stop consuming all processed, packaged foods. Read this book to know what's healthy.https://www.pdfdrive.com/nourishing-traditions-the-cookbook-that-challenges-politically-correct-nutrition-and-the-diet-dictocrats-e162137032.html
Learn to stop ejaculating to conserve the sexual energy required for transformation (read books by Mantak Chia),
Do not engage in anal play (this is reverse kundalini and will destroy your results).
>>2964>After much practice the catheter will not be necessary, you will
be able to suck water into the bowel directly, but that is at a very
advanced stage which may take years to perfect.
I do enjoy sitting and breathing, but I'd like to know a bit more about this "expanded awareness" before trying this one.
Also, provide some citation if you're offering results in exchange for religious conversion, please.
Stop pushing shit you've never tried yourself.
>>2965>After much practice the catheter
lol I've only read the first ~100 pages of the book
It said stuff about semen retention and how disciplining the body first will make the mind.
And I was like ah this looks like all good stuff.
Either way the juice fasting book requires enemas, which I've done.
What I meant by anal play is masturbation with the anus, dildos and such.
>have a source for that?
Ultimately, you can't prove anything outside of your own experience.
Just do it, have some faith, and see if it works.
>advises yoga exercises>religious conversion!
Hinduism is a term the British came up with, not an actual religion.
Well unless your some trad Christian who believes you will be possessed by demons by doing stretching exercises,
I don't see any religious conflicts.>>2966
I've done the juice fasting for 45 days following the book.
It works really well: endless energy, super high clarity of mind, 6'2" 190lb -> 125lb.
and have also read the 3rd one and follow it's advice regarding diet.
The first one I only read ~100 pages in.
Hey OP. My friend is in the same boat as you (or at least a very similar boat). Born has a male and wants to be a female. He was going to transition, but he decided not too because of the side effects and most important to him, he wants functioning genitals and libido. He's in a shitty situation because of that where he will never achieve what he truly desires. That, coupled with chronic depression from genetics, fucks him up bad. The best I can do is being there for him.
>I'm also into men, but i don't "feel" like a gay person
His dysphoria makes it difficult for him to get into a relationship. He declares himself asexual because of that. Although he still sometimes fall for someone with a really nice personality, but ultimately can't commit to it.
She (I will start to refer to him has a she. She doesn't mind "he" but likes being called a she.) has a few ways to cope with this however. She's a person of science. While I don't think we'll ever get to this point in our lives, she likes to think that, in the future, science will be to a point where she'll be able to transfer her conscious, in one way or another, with another consenting party, or that we'll be so advanced in the medical field that we will be able to transfer her conscious into the one of an animal like a cat or bird. It's a very "dualistic" approach to the problem.
She also has other small ways to cope with this. She uses a persona online and likes going in VRchat with that persona she made. She's rational enough to not let the game take a toll on her life, but I've noticed that at often times, when she leaves that virtual world, she becomes depressed for no reason. She says it's for no reason, but idk if she's lying or haven't figured out that it might be because that she's leaving her ideal body.
Right now she has other problems then her dysphoria and I can't believe how willpowered she is. All the cards are stacked against her and she's still going thru all of it. I believe you'll find a way thru this.
I don't wanna be uncomfy, so anyone let me know if this is feeling like an argument or otherwise not the sort of tone to have in a noodle bar such as this.
Anyway, you should read the breathing and chakra sections. I'm a fan.
Evidence is not all or nothing. If you had a source, it could be good, and increase belief, or maybe bad, and decrease belief, but in general: pics or it didn't happen.
I think of a religion change as a change in the source of your will, or a sufficiently deep worldview change. The yoga book (which does have cool stuff) advices turning over your complete will to a guru that you may learn to act properly and gain higher brain mumbo jumbo. So, that doesn't really leave room for serving any other religion. Seems I'm taking it out of context, since you are just recommending juice fast and using magic to alter your reproductive anatomy.
>>2968>she likes to think that, in the future, science will be to a point where she'll be able to transfer her conscious, in one way or another, with another consenting party
Hopefully not. Jesus fucking christ, sounds like something out of a dystopian novel. Imagine the trafficking of women from 3rd world countries that would go on just so that rich men in the west could live out their ultimate porn fantasy. Absolutely horrifying.
>>2969>pics or it didn't happen
Well someone could always create a 3D CG one
I legitimately had pics at one point in time, which I would've posted here.
Whether you choose to believe me is a different story.
A guru doesn't have to be someone alive.
It can be some entity you have a good relationship with.
Just whole heartedly pray to them.
You can do that, but I wouldn't. Only a flesh and blood human can safely point out dangers to you.
Do you believe technology is responsible for the uses people find for it? That power is responsible for corrupting?
I think tech just gives people ability and it's up to them to use ability for good or I'll. However, I also think you can't expect people not to follow incentives in the environment, and new tech can change the shape of those incentives…
So I guess I'm confused.
>>2974>THERE ONCE LIVED a king called Bhangashvana. He was upright and virtuous and was known as a royal sage. But he had no children. He resolved to perform the fire sacrifice, which he hoped would bring him children; and, in due course, a hundred sons were born to him.
>Indra was infuriated by this ritual, which involved exclusive sacrifice to Agni, the fire god. He felt slighted and, from then on, looked for ways to punish Bhangashvana. Sometime later, the king went on a hunting expedition. Seizing his opportunity, Indra plunged him into a state of confusion, so that he wandered aimlessly in the thick forest, faint from hunger and thirst.
>At last he came to a beautiful lake. He immersed himself and drank deeply—and when he emerged, he found that he was now a woman. The king was appalled at the loss of his manhood. How could he explain this transformation to everyone who knew him? How would he even be able to mount his horse? He managed, however, with difficulty, and rode home, embarrassed. He—now she—told her wives and sons what had happened and, leaving the kingdom to her sons, she retired to the woods and lived as the wife of an ascetic. By this man, she bore a hundred sons.
>When the time was right, she took these hundred sons to the court and asked her previous sons to share the kingdom with them, as children of the same parent. This they did, and the two hundred sons and their families lived harmoniously together.
>Seeing this, Indra was mortified. ‘It seems that, intending to punish Bhangashvana, I have done him nothing but good!’ He took on the appearance of a brahmin and went to the court. There he spoke to the first hundred sons. ‘How has this situation come about? Even brothers of the same father often quarrel, yet here you are, sharing the kingdom with the sons of an ascetic, letting them enjoy your inheritance.’
>His words had the desired effect. The two sets of brothers began to distrust one another and, very soon, they came to blows, and they did not stop fighting until all of them lay dead.
>When the news reached Bhangashvana, she was overcome with grief, and poured out her lamentations to a passing brahmin, telling him the whole story. The brahmin then revealed himself as Indra, and explained that she, when she was king, had insulted him by her exclusive worship of the fire god. Bhangashvana knelt before him. ‘Please forgive me,’ she begged. ‘It was only my great longing for children that led me to perform that ritual. I had absolutely no wish to offend you.’
>Indra was mollified and granted her a boon: one of her sets of sons would be brought back to life. ‘Which sons shall I revive,’ asked Indra, ‘the first-born, or the ones born to you as a woman?’
>‘The second-born,’ replied Bhangashvana. ‘Women are more loving, and so I am more attached to those younger sons of mine.” Indra was impressed by her answer, and told her that he would bring all two hundred sons back to life.
>‘I will give you another boon,’ he said. ‘You can choose whether to remain a woman or to resume the male sex you were born with.’
>‘I choose to remain a woman,’ said Bhangashvana. Indra was amazed, and asked her to explain. ‘Because women enjoy sex far more than men do,’ replied Bhangashvana.
Being a transgender doesn't 100% mean that they'll chop their genitalia off.
No but people are crazy this day and age so you don't know what to expect
>>2942>Every now and then, when I was home alone, I'd sneak into my sister's room and wear her clothes and look in the mirror for a while.
Sorry, but this is where you lost me. Mental illness doesn't give you a pass on doing that.
>he asked why I don't shave my legs if I want to feel more like a girl. It actually took me a moment to remember that for a lot of people, the hair doesn't grow back so much by the end of the day, and also that they don't have as much leg to shave as I do since I'm large.
Hairy women exist as well, they just deal with it by waxing or wearing tights.
Seems like you idolise women and how you think they lead their lives, while in reality they have a lot of struggles as well and you won't start living on "easy mode" if you magically became a woman. They're not naturally hairless and wearing a dress or putting on makeup does not turn one into a woman, so it's weird how those are the main ways you try to express your femininity. From the sounds of it most of your desires stem from wanting to be beautiful in a way that you are just unable to achieve.
I'd recommend for you to stop using the internet as a means to look at what others are doing and focus on your own hobbies or for simply learning new things. Social media will rot your soul.
Or go to therapy about your gender dysphoria and learn how to accept yourself in your own body, because in the state of mind that you're in right now you will never be content with yourself. Best of luck, Sushi!
Sad that in certain groups you would be labelled a bigot and homophobe.
OP, I think that a lot of people nowadays are uncertain about their own identity. Those feelings of yours were only augmented by internet. I have an impression that you care about the aesthetics the most and that is pretty superficial.
Very well-said, sushi roll.
I'm sure you have good intentions and everything but you clearly don't know as much about transgenderism as you think you do, so your advice is probably damaging. It reminds me of the common sense advice people give about depression (look on the bright side of things, stand up straight and push through even when you don't want to etc.) when anyone who's actually experienced or studied clinical depression knows that isn't how it works. Wanting to be a girl because of overexposure to cute girls or because of some delusion about how the world works are things that exist, but they're not what gender dysphoria is. If you want information try reading through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality
, the issue is much much more complicated than what the internet and your personal experience/intuition make it seem like.
Is this copipe? Has OP even replied at any point ITT?
It's also damaging to convince someone who has VERY SPECIFICALLY stated that they're gay and have a lot of internal homophobia that they're transgender which could lead to a lot of serious and irreversible decisions.
This isn't comparable to depression in the slightest because people who are depressed go to therapy to learn how to cope with their mental illness and exist comfortably in society. People with depression aren't told in therapy to dress like an emo kid and self harm, therefore embracing their "depressed" identity.
being depressed is bad, being a girl isn't
In any case, she also "VERY SPECIFICALLY" referred to having gender dysphoria, which has nothing to do with sexuality. And coping and living comfortably in society with dysphoria means coping skills and so on, but it also means addressing the gap between the brain's knowledge of the body and the body itself, which could range from anything from slight changes in presentation to, yes, the eeeevil surgery you're so concerned with someone slipping up and accidentally skipping all the intermediate steps to get.
What you advocate for is that a person first achieve an advanced stage of delusion before considering mutilation.
There is no reason why any person should mutilate themselves.
Mutilation will never give you a vagina, nor will it make you a woman, it will only make you a mutilated male eunuch.
I recommend you first mutilate your genitals before recommending it to anyone else.
>>2986>Mutilation will never give you a vagina, nor will it make you a woman, it will only make you a mutilated male eunuch.
This. We're selling the idea to mentally ill people that their life will be easier if they transition when judging by statistics, that's absolutely not true. They need therapy, not life-altering, irreversible drugs and surgery.
Wouldn't be surprised since it reads like every other r/traaaaaans post, this is the kind of thread someone would make trying to tear the site apart with trans drama.
>>2988>tear the site apart with trans drama
This is what I initially thought would happen, but this is the most civil discussion I've seen about transgenderism on the net. Despite there being a wealth of different opinions on the validity of OP's dysphoria, there is a lot of genuine discussion and advice being given without the common mindless insulting.
Physical transitioning is not to "make you a woman" (and I'll also note, so much for "oh poor me i'll be called transphobic 4no rasin"). OP is already a woman by identity and there are many people who live as men or women regardless of genitals.
Sex change surgery or hormone therapy are 1. none of your business any more than, say, cis men taking testosterone and 2. the only treatment which exists for many cases of gender dysphoria. Is OP's one of those cases? Who knows at this point. They are not mutually contradictory with therapy or anything else, and successful by far the majority of the time (the biggest cause of distress among trans people outside of gender dysphoria is people getting hate and violence for it, which if your supposed concern were true, would of course have meant you wouldn't have said what you did). I can also attest that yes, it will give you a vagina.
Finally, when it comes down to it, it's pretty sad that people who seem to care so much about gender don't actually have any meaning to it beyond "i have this in my pants"
What makes one a woman, though? It's backwards to imply that anyone can identify as a woman just by saying that they feel like one. Liking feminine things or wanting to look more feminine does not make you a woman imo
People should be able to do what they want with their bodies in order to feel good about themselves(as long as psychological help is provided to people with dysphoria), but implying that they are able to change genders and pretending that there are no differences between the sexes is harmful to everyone involved. >>2988
And sadly I am falling for it :(
Well, I'd ask you what *you* think makes someone a woman? I don't think having a female body is a good answer, because most of the time when someone identifies themselves as a woman or man, does what they think a woman/man should, dresses like one, makes assumptions about someone based on gender, it's not their body that's important: it's their personality and how they fit into society.
We can say that glands in or linked to biological sex has some impact on that, and they do to an extent, but they're far from the only factors on a person's hormonal environment, which is far from the only factor in who a person is. And there are times when what anatomy you have does matter most, like some medical or sexual contexts, but since those aren't something anyone can do anything about (you need healthcare for the bits you have, you're attracted to something or you're not, etc…) i don't think there's much point linking them to identity and social ideals/roles like man and woman except for tradition.
I should've said "biological female body", because that's really what I meant.
Let's say they identify as female - then nothing less than a biological female body would resolve their dysphoria.
Making them a male eunuch is clearly not an answer.
You would have much better chances going the turn female by magic route described earlier.
Not to mention that sex transmutation magic won't work if a person is castrated.
Flesh hole cut out by doctors != vagina
Does the cut out flesh hole work exactly as a real vagina does?
I think we have to answer no.>>2992
triggered by the word mutilate
>To physically harm as to impair use, notably by cutting off or otherwise disabling a vital part, such as a limb. To destroy beyond recognition. (figuratively) To render imperfect or defective.
Well that's exactly what they do to their male genitals.
If you want to use the word surgery, I guess it works, but I find this word far more suitable.
For the mainstream medical establishment, there's no such thing as a "cure".
There's only masking symptoms, that's all that surgery and drugs do: mask symptoms.
They wouldn't make much money if they actually cured people.
You can't bounce a question like that back at someone else.
Man/woman are very much physical realities; trying to tie them to culture is an exercise in futility because there are many different cultures and just as many ways of treating men and women across countries and time periods. The only constants tend to be those that are dictated by biological reality - that, for example, men are so much stronger than women individually it beggars belief, and so "heavy" work has historically across cultures been the realm of men, not due to some inborn hate of women carrying bricks but due to simple natural selection - a man will carry more bricks than a woman for longer.
Seriously try to define being a woman. Acting womanly does not make you a woman any more than acting like a cat makes you a cat. Trying to argue so equates transgender people with furries and that does you no favors.
Well, dysphoria can be triggered by different things for different people, which means that it can be managed or reduced by a lot of different things. It's true that medicine can't give you a fully working uterus and everything, but I am not aware of dysphoria ever being caused by that (though maybe it can be); at worst it seems to be external genitals (definitely doable) and secondary sex characteristics like bone structure (can't really do much) and voice (can be affected by hormones and practice). In any case helping mostly is still better than not helping>>2995
fuck appendectomies, they only mask the symptoms>>2996
As you said, most of being a man or woman is culturally defined. Don't ask me, my answer is "whatever society says it is". What society thinks they are is these rough clusters of associated social roles, physical traits and personality traits. I think people would be healthier if we allowed more flexibility in where people fit into/outside of those clusters, because forcing diverse people into categories which are sometimes very narrow can only be done through psychological and physical violence. Part of that is accepting people whose genes, physical body type and the identity/presentation/role in society don't all match the way we're used to.
what caused the need for the surgery in the first place.
To maximize profit they want you to believe that these things just happen for no good reason or from something "immutable" like genetics.
Instead of deal with the cause directly - we'll just cut out the "diseased" part.
Ultimately all of those things don't help at all. Not one bit.
Deep down, even if the biological male appears as a woman, they still know they will always be more or less completely functionally inadequate when compared to the genuine article.
They will never be functional as a woman, and through hormones they are diminishing their potential to become functional as a man.
Disgust is the biologically ingrained reaction designed to keep the body away from illness, and that is the only reaction any healthy person has towards this illness.
>>2997>my answer is "whatever society says it is".
Which society? From what time period? Which part of society? Of what age group? As associated with which stereotypes and tastes? You dodge about because you don't actually have an answer. When I tell you to think about what a woman is, I'm not being sarcastic or caustic; I'm asking you to really fucking think about it and ask why you want to be treated like something you're not just because you act as if you are. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being womanly as a man or being manly as a woman, but that doesn't make you the other. All you're doing is making yourself out to be incapable of accepting reality. Not everyone is born as they wish. In fact, I'd argue nobody is. Being a woman 'inside' is as nonsensical as being black 'inside' or being intelligent 'inside'. You're born as the result of RNG, and Cheat Engine doesn't exist in real life.
Yep, gonna have to agree there. The further you get into dysphoria, the more miserable you become. It sucks to have it but the only way out is to reject it and keep growing.
It's because sushi rolls love one another! : D
To all the sushi rolls asking for definition of women, I find it surprising nobody has mentioned what is arguably the most important:
+Women can get pregnant.+
I liked this video by vihart:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hmKix-75dsg
>>2990>I can also attest that yes, it will give you a vagina.
LMAO no. A rotting wound which you have to keep open using dialation and made out of a penis/colon is not the same as a vaginal canal which includes muscles, nerve-endings and the ability to self lubricate/clean. It's not comparable to comething which is connected to a cervix, womb and ovaries which can create life. It doesn't menstruate.
The difference is that as a socialised man, you've come to think of vaginas as nothing more than a hole to have sex with. To women, they're so much more and they do not sexualise them. I know this is harsh but people need a strong dose of reality because pushing this pseudoscience and encouraging others to get surgery that makes them more depressed than before is sick.
I haven't been replying to anything but I have been reading it all and checking the thread regularly.
Actually, since I'm here, I'd like to elaborate on something. People in the thread keep discussing gender reassignment surgery, BUT:
If I transition, I'm probably not getting it.
There's too high a chance of something going wrong, and that's the last place on my body I want a fucked-up surgery. Even if it all goes well, its still a wound. Do I actually like my penis? No, certainly not. But that's not my primary concern. Sex doesn't matter THAT much to me. I just want to be able to look enough like a woman to not hate myself when I look in the mirror and for people not to assume I'm a guy with long hair when I pass them at the grocery store. I know there's facial surgery but I don't know how safe that is in comparison although I do know of some successful cases.
Makes me v sad
>>3002>+Women can get pregnant.+
So are women with reproductive issues not really women? Do women become men at menopause? Would you consider a woman getting her tubes tied to be a form of FtM sexual reassignment surgery? Maybe the reason no one has mentioned that yet is because it's nowhere near the most important thing, and doesn't hold up to any amount of scrutiny.
Good video though.
It comes down to reproduction. I get the sensation described in viharts vid about this… I find it difficult to image not caring if you can reproduce or not. The desire to change from a fertile man to an infertile woman is extremely strange. Not that I wish harm on these people, but I find it very difficult to not see them as wishing harm on themselves.
Whichever time and place they live in, of course. When it comes down to it gender is a *label* we apply to people and the criteria used to determine who falls under which one are different.
Ultimately, that's what it comes down to. People are saying that ultimately you can't detatch how someone lives and is related to by others from the body parts they were born with. That's why there's the fetishization of genitalia as the epitome of gender, the obsession with sex reassignment surgery as opposed to all the other parts of the trans spectrum, etc…
This is why the sex/gender division came about. I knoooow people will complain about those words and say that they must be the same (words are social constructs, fuck you) so instead let's say sex characteristics (the body), hormonal environment, personality and social position. You say that sex characteristics are ultimately the meaning of masculinity/femininity and something that people can do wrong. But - 1. That's your own definition of man/woman that you're thus forcing on others. 2. When you see someone and categorize them as a man, are you thinking about what kind of dick they have (and had as a baby!) or what that gender means for what kind of person they are and how you relate to them socially? 3. I'd bet it's the latter, and thus, can you really say that you view having exactly the right genitals (and having had them from birth!) as the most important part of being a man? 4. On top of that, this is what creates a lot of shame in cis men and women who feel they don't fit the mold. If you're against that as you say, then you need to realize that your own ideas about what is a "real" man or woman are part of that problem. >>3008
That on the other hand is just sexist nonsense, whether you intend it to be or not. A cis woman's or man's value isn't defined by whether they produce offspring for the state, so why should a trans person's? Ultimately your argument is the one which ends up arguing that females just need to stay home and make babies and males just need to facilitate and control that. If you see having children by blood as important to you? Great, but don't judge others by if that's part of their path
I feel like you didn't actually respond to my post, but okay
>I get the sensation described in viharts vid about this… I find it difficult to image not caring if you can reproduce or not.
You mean the sensation she described as "idiot teenager feelings?" The whole point of that video is that it's important to realize that not everyone thinks the same way that you do, and that what's important to you might not be important to someone else, and vice-versa.
>The desire to change from a fertile man to an infertile woman is extremely strange
So are you okay with trans people who don't get surgery (i.e. most of them) and therefore remain fertile? It's true that HRT reduces fertility, but it doesn't destroy it completely. Also, how do you feel about non-trans people who choose to be infertile, via vasectomies or tube-tying? Do you see that as a form of self-harm?
Just work towards doing the sex change through magic like >>2964
If you reach a high level in yoga, or some sort of ritualistic magic
there are apparently no limits as to what you can accomplish on a physical level.
In the beginning this means getting healthy, because only a healthy body can support a powerful mind.
But also quitting pornography and learning to prevent ejaculation.
And who knows, as soon as you reach a certain level of health you might not experience any body dysphoria anymore.
Thank you, sushi! You just said what I've been trying to put into words for a while now.
I haven't participated in this discussion until now, but just chiming in on this – I don't think there's anything wrong with not caring about children or fertility. There's an entire pan of society that adheres to childfree beliefs, and claiming that a woman who doesn't want children is some kind of abomination or failure is kind of an outdated way of thinking.
Ultimately, how one views themselves is influenced by how others see them (and thus how society defines gender). We judge whether someone is a man or woman by their physical appearance, behaviour, and, yes, genitals. Varying degrees of dysphoria lead to different consequences, and while someone would be fine with 'passing' and being recognized in public as a person of the other gender, others are too deep in the condition to handle seeing a cock or a vag down there.
I think that, if the entire medical process (in terms of mental health, pre-surgery treatment, …) was better handled, and if we had more support options for those abandoned by their families (family rejection and substance abuse are significant predictors for suicide attempts), a lot more people could be saved. And then, of course, you have the whole discourse about whether or not accepting trans people as an 'attribute', rather than a mental illness that needs to be corrected back to their sex, is worth the societal impact it will have. That's another subject.
But it's definitely more complicated than just having kids or not. We live for more than that.
Gender is a societally-defined label but sex is not, and gender is influenced by sex in a nontrivial way.
>that's your own definition of…
No, it's the dictionary definition. The word means sex. Gender is something else entirely, and is a societal definition that means shit all in the grand scheme of things.
2. When you see someone and categorize them as a man
I think of the fact that they're literally male, build muscle faster, stick it in instead of get it stuck in them, and so on. If I wanted to say someone was a musclebound chad, I'd call him that - or failing that, and what you're thinking of, manly.
3. You bet wrong. Being a man means one specific thing, namely a human adult male. Being MANLY is something else entirely and is totally detached from the genitals you're born with or what age you are - little girls can be more manly than adult men with twelve inch cocks, but that doesn't make them an adult man.
4. shame in cis men and women
Then they can either cope or fix it. People feel shame all the time. Lardballs feel shame when they're fat and learn to either live with and embrace it or work hard to get rid of what they're ashamed of. Weak people feel shame when they're weak and either learn to own it or go to the gym. The uneducated either decide that not knowing calc really isn't that big of a deal anyway or they go to adult university and start reading to fix themselves. If you're cis and you don't fit the mold, you can either own it - fuck you, I'm a man in a frilly skirt, the fuck you're going to do about it? - or you can change to fit the mold. If you do neither then you end up miserable - the fatass who knows he's fat but is too lazy to go jog and hates himself for it, the scrawny kid who pretends he doesn't care but looks at the football players with envy, the uneducated lump who hates how he doesn't know shit but also can't bring himself to try to learn - or the trans guy who desperately wishes he was a woman but can't bear to actually act like one, instead hoping to change what can't be changed so he can fit a different mold.
You keep lecturing me but you barely have your own ideas straight. You're the one conflating gender and sex here, not me. One of the two is just a label, and utterly irrelevant. The other can't be changed and is a physical reality of the world.
>>3014>little girls can be more manly than adult men with twelve inch cocks
The delusion is incredible
Gender doesn't exist. Sex does.
god this thread is awful, very unshushilike
better trans discussion that most of the net honesty
What's this topic doing in my sushichan?
honestly I couldn't care less what ppl do with their lives or their sexuality, I don't understand why humans love to be so judgemental, always have to be fighting over race or political party or whatever instead of trying to make the best of one's limited time and space, instead choose to fight over other people's choices or something. Now I do understand some communities have their less desirable traits, but that's inherent to all humans in one way or another and many shortcomings of human character will surface whether they are allowed to wear a dress or not
but seriously, why do people have to fight about this shit? Seems like a waste of energy
To you and anyone looking to criticize this thread, please sage next time instead of bumping it.
It doesn't bother you because it doesn't impact your life. The people who get heated about it are the ones it will directly affect (i.e. women) or who have had a negative experience in the past. You will never really understand but you should at least try to educate yourself.
how does op transitioning affect women? what they do with their body is no one else's business and this really seems like a reaching statement>>3046
i feel like it started out pretty okay but took a massive nosedive :(
i hope OP goes to therapy. i think people should have the right to do whatever they want with their body and ultimately i hope OP does what makes them happy. that's the most important thing. but i don't think there can be a healthy discussion on the internet about transitioning and gender dysphoria, and i think OP should really seek professional help. also i think that there's nothing to be ashamed of for anyone that feels this way.
They're a TERF. The implication is that by OP transitioning from a man to a woman, something about womanhood is cheapened or misrepresented. Or, they feel that womanhood is inherently tied to childbirth or puberty, menstruation, etc.
Like, yeah, there are things about being assigned female at birth that are going to introduce you to the possibility of certain commonalities. Having periods, the fear of pregnancy if you have sex with people that can get you pregnant, breast cancer.
But naturally, the problem with this is that none of those things are truly constant. I've been hospitalized because of my periods but that puts me in a minority of women. I'm extremely likely to get breast cancer but that also puts me in a minority of women.
To me, the only thing womanhood truly has wholly in common is that if you are identified as a woman by others, you get to experience the sexist frameworks your society has in place. Trans women included. So what sense is there in excluding trans women? They're just another minority of womanhood, the same way as all other minorities in the group.
> but i don't think there can be a healthy discussion on the internet about transitioning and gender dysphoria
It exists but you really can't be looking for it in general "community spaces" like this one. But if they're in a safe state I agree, professional help is best.
I want dudebros on the internet to stop speaking about women like they're experts on women's biology, because they're not.
If you want me to stop thinking and discussing things that I find interesting and important, I refuse, however limited my knowledge on the matter may be.
Not the point. You can think about and discuss whatever you want, but note the> like they're experts
Don't make definitive statements about science that are not factually correct. Anti-trans rhetoric is full of harmful medicalism that hurts cis women as well as the trans women people intend to target.
Also, shit, would it kill people to learn how to sage?
>>4512> Not the point.
Yes, it is. Partially. Considering the supposed lack of knowledge to evaluate the factual correctness of the definitive statements, the request> Don't make definitive statements about science that are not factually correct
Is thus, in part, the request to abstain from any definitive statements about science altogether.> Anti-trans rhetoric is full of harmful medicalism that hurts cis women
But does that medicalism only bring harm to them? I think that the TERF girls you mentioned would beg to disagree.
The framework of semantics you’ve drenched this in is preventing me from writing a good response because I don’t really know what angle you’re actually coming at this from. I think it’s a reasonable ask for people not to peddle frequently circulated misinformation. I’m sorry if you felt like my phrasing was infringing on your free speech, but it costs nothing to learn more outside the bubble of talking points distributed within the circles of traditionalism and anti-transgender rhetoric. Which is what my comment was about.
> But does that medicalism only bring harm to them? I think that the TERF girls you mentioned would beg to disagree.
This is such a non-question because it doesn’t matter. Naturally it “helps” TERFs because it supports their ideas to say that women exist physically in a singular, insular way. But on the macro level it helps *nobody* because this is not how human beings exist in real life. Peer-reviewed literature about women’s health is a laughably small body of work. Gatekeeping the label of womanhood from people does nothing to aid the expansion of that field. It’s solely an ideas game.
You really thesaurused the fuck out of this comment until it became completely incomprehensible and meaningless.
Also ffs if you're going to keep arguing, type "sage" in the email field of your comment so not everyone on hell has to see your bickering.
>>4521> your profound comments
Dude, lmao… it's your responsibility as a poster to make sure you're understood by others. Being incomprehensible is not the same thing as being profound.
>>4522> it's your responsibility as a poster to make sure you're understood by others
Not necessarily. Sometimes there is a fault with the receiving end.
Yes sometimes comprehension fails on the receiving end but if your goal is to be esoteric, the fault lies with you.