Despite being a techno-luddite, watching tiktok unironically grounded me in reality while NEET. I saw videos of people playing pranks and having fun doing stupid dances, it made me realize that life doesn't have to be so bad.
Data privacy is concerning. But I don't use tiktok anymore so I dont care either way the ban goes.
I honestly will feel somewhat sad if tiktok is banned and I don't even use it often, far less than I use 4chan or other imageboards.
it's like a version of youtube that I trust and enjoy using
No social media is good for you, but then again, I don't think it's bad to use in moderation like alcohol. But I don't use it at all.
Also… best besides Twitter? You need to raise your standards, Twitter is a hellsite.
> Are you pro or anti tiktok?
I totally get why people are into TikTok, and I'm not mad at anyone for enjoying it.
With that said, it is really really not for me. When my siblings tried to get me into the app during the midst of its initial explosion post-musical.ly shutdown, the idea that I had to "teach the algorithm" to serve me videos that pandered to my interests really annoyed me.
All modern video sharing platforms are algorithmically driven, but all of them but TikTok will provide the user a more general avenue for 'discovery' than TikTok does. Unless you're brave enough to sort through thousands of videos under a search keyword, there really is basically no choice but to wait until the algorithm succeeds at its job.
And honestly? I hate that. After all of the discussion had in recent years about how algorithmically-driven social platforms eroded and intensified social issues over the period of years, accelerating as the technology became more efficient, it blew my mind that so many of my peers are just… fine with it. Some people aren't informed and just don't care, but most of my friends do know and have self-admitted to conceding to it because it's addictive.
And that addiction is what really gets me. I have an unhealthy relationship with technology and the internet myself– I'm definitely addicted, and I have been for years. So I understand not wanting to give up TikTok when it means something to them. But my addiction isn't because I spend time on social platforms that mathematically determine which posts will release the most dopamine in my brain– it's for other reasons. Even though I'm not off the hook either, that particular paradigm feels incredibly sinister to me. (Both on TikTok and American platforms.)
> I've seen more real examinations into the human condition on tiktok than I have seen on any other platform. You see actual people there living their lives while platforms like instagram feel far more manicured.
I think this is probably true, and on a wide scale! But my feeling is that this is because of the scale of TikTok's adoption, not necessarily because of any particular characteristic of TikTok as a product. I think every community lots of people have ever inhabited online has had the opportunity to produce a truly human and humanistic component.
> It clearly comes from a jingoistic anti-China rhetoric that is pervasive among our politicians, there is literally no proof that tiktok has done anything to harm the USA or Americanse.
I think the most outspoken politicians addressing this are 100% coming at this from a jingoistic perspective.
But this much is unfortunately true: TikTok *does* pose a national security risk. Ultimately, ByteDance has an incredible amount of influence over the lives of nearly two billion people. The profiles built on users are incredibly incredibly powerful. The profiles American companies build on their users are *also* incredibly powerful, but TikTok does it better than any of our companies, full stop. This is not idle speculation or baseless conspiratorializing. This is widely researched and anyone that isn't under NDA working on this technology in industry can tell you.
Is the CCP using TikTok *right now* to influence the thoughts of Americans? Yeah, probably not! But it's important to note that Douyin *does* see constant and intentional interference by the CCP on Chinese servers, so it could happen. I personally don't think it's worth the risk from their perspective, but they could do it.
Not directly related, but I used to be an active bilibili user, and it was insane what would get boosted, what wouldn't, and most notably, the fact that every single video, profile, and comment was manually moderated. It was crazy. Everyone's IP is also mandated public on the Chinese internet. So yeah, even just that much is a privacy activist's worst nightmare haha.
The fact of the matter is, if our regulators actually gave a shit about our data use and privacy, American companies would *also be regulated*. But our regulators don't care if our own systems take advantage of people. It becomes a problem when the other guy can use it against you.
So is this only happening because it's China? Yes and it frustrates the shit out of me that the core problem isn't being addressed. But there is truth to the idea that it is a risk and
> our relationship with China can be good if politicians don't continually antagonize them
is def a big oversimplification of geopolitics x(
> BUT WILL TIKTOK GET BANNED?
I think it will probably undergo somewhat of an organizational split so it can be operated stateside and US user data can stay in the US. But ByteDance will still make money off of it. Douyin and TikTok will become more separated but things will otherwise remain mostly the same.
I've never used tiktok and I never will but I don't like it being banned simply because it's chinese. It's not like American or any other company in this world are good. Or aren't spying on people.
Short form video is creepy and lame and probably predatory towards certain types of people. Banning TikTok or anything like it is dumb and I guess principally I disagree with it, but I won't be crying about it if they do.
>>15496>For personal devices I don't see any issues, seems like that should be a matter of personal choice.
This entirely. NO social media should be allowed on a government device. That's obvious. That should be the standard.
But banning tiktok for Americans is such a rhetoric fueled idiotic move, in line with extremely pro-censorship states like China, I just can't understand how anyone would support it.
It's an app. It shows funny videos. Just because it's from China isn't grounds to ban it.
The VC guy Mic Solana has a really good post about this:
The republicans hate TikTok because it's Chinese. The democrats hate TikTok because it's an app.
don't use instagram it's evil
only use tiktok
I dunno, can you name a US based social media currently operating in China?
You think it's silly because they're banning a phone app, but they should be doing a whole lot more than that. The world of politics is well and truly fucked beyond belief and beyond repair.
>>15483>What do you guys think about the whole tiktok banning thing?
I think its just because of American Chinese tensions along side penalizing China for supporting Russia.
The main thing I dislike is that it kind of opens the gate to ban other foreign apps under simaler pretenses >Are you pro or anti tiktok?
Neutral. TikTok sucks, but when you compare it to other social media it's hard to argue if it's better or worse security wise besides the fact the data is stored in China. I think TikTok is hated more because of a low cultural attention span and normalization of other worst cyber security issues. "The Age of Surveillance Capitalism" goes over much of googles questionable policies against ameircans which are way worse then tiktok. Like this single article (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/may/15/google-admits-storing-private-data
) is worse then anything tiktok did. >Misc.
I find tiktok the best social media for simple things because of how short they force it to be. Average YT is padded to 10 minutes while the average website is half SEO padding. Anything complex I need help with I just get a book.
Also find it funny how the tiktok CEO sounds exactly like the Nathan for you dog.
i enjoy tiktok. its algroithm did a good job on putting me in the right communities and i enjoy content from the people i follow
>>15515> Also find it funny how the tiktok CEO sounds exactly like the Nathan for you dog.
I think we should riot if tiktok is banned
i tried to use this crap. it gave me instant disbelief in humanity as a whole.
it's like an infinite despair box. things this place considers "good for you" before you tune your algorithm is basically clips of parents recording their 13yo kids messy rooms, these 13yo kids crying over math textbooks, lots of violence-based humor, "funny" pranks, recordings of people who have lost it for one reason or another.
it really opens your eyes. SOMEONE OUT THERE WATCHES THIS CRAP. FOR HOURS.
when you finally tune the algorithm, you get people dancing. that's better than instagram i agree. people just being themselves instead of crafting a presentable persona.
tiktok has a high addiction potential and shortens the attention span of everyone.
one might say there are good things about tiktok, like the diy tiktok or the booktok, but didn't we have that before on youtube. not enough to justify tiktok imo.
that being said there is no way back, so i will eventually have to come back there for the content i probably won't find anywhere else.
Tiktok is the brainwashing theater from clockwork orange except you get to strap yourself in, good riddance.
This thread made me try tiktok just to see what it's like. I didn't like it. I spent some 30 minutes in it and I remember nearly nothing, in the end I just kept scrolling past every video and closed the app because I was doing nothing at all. Using it left like some sort of brain fog, like somehow my mind was sequestered for the duration of it and funnily enough all I wanted was to get out of there.
Maybe I'm just getting old.
you need to spend some time to train the algorithm
this is such a weird way to use a product and get value out of a product. how does nobody see the problem with this.
Okay I went and looked for girls dancing and I can see why people like it.
oh my god i thought it was just me. all of the videos have been things im not interested in at all.
also all of the congress people are dumbasses, the "can tiktok connect to wifi networks"?? i cannot believe that these people are in charge of making important political decisions. overall, the entire hearing has been an absolute joke. i doubt they ban it but who knows
now you understand the true value of tiktok hahahaha>>15541>the entire hearing has been an absolute joke
completely agree. The bill to ban tiktok itself is also being used to shoehorn a bunch of anti-privacy bullshit into the law. It will be terrible for the American people if that shit passes
I never used tiktok before this thread, but it sparked my curiosity, and now I'm really digging it! I just worry it may become addictive and fuck up my already short attention span.
Social media in general is bad for society and everyone would be better off without it, but banning it is not realistic. Even if it won't be implemented, the tiktok ban is a step in the right direction since tiktok is one of the worst offenders when it comes addicting users. That google or facebook are also bad is a valid complaint and there is the risk of legitimising them by making tiktok out to be uniquely terrible, but any discussion of data privacy and the political implications of social media is welcome. People seem very uninquisitive about this sort of thing. Our entire lives are now structured around algorithmic feeds that we have limited understanding of and that are managed by shady companies we have little insight into or ability to hold accountable.
This is not unique to tiktok, but another issue is that it contributes to a panopticon where every public interaction has the potential to go viral. People have very little protection against this and, frankly, I hate this.
Just on a personal level, I dislike tiktok because it disrupts my reading on the train. I don't use my smartphone at all, but it has become harder to concentrate on my book when everyone is on their phones staring dead-eyed at hypnotic tiktok clips. It's distracting in a way normal phone scrolling isn't because your eyes wander to that sort of thing even if you're trying to focus. These videos are like catnip to people. I don't understand how people can be okay with giving up any sense of control like that.
Everything Neil Postman wrote about television is even more applicable to tiktok.>>15489>it blew my mind that so many of my peers are just… fine with it.
It's sad what people will give up due to convenience, novelty, and even mild social pressure. Another issue is just that people get used to things. Massive data collection is now the new normal, younger zoomers in particular have never known a world where this was not normal, so now you're the weird one if you care about privacy.
Tiktok is pure genius from a business perspective. It's like an infinite version of one of those home video clip shows, so the people who all balk at watching 20 or so minute long youtube videos on a single topic can instead just watch 20 1 minute clips of stupid shit that quickly explain or showcase something. Of course, this just means people are subconsciously absorbing information rather than actually realizing it, similar to that BNW concept where people get subconciously exposed to certain things, but they don't truly understand the ideas and more or less just spout the phrase in response to some stimuli. Disinformation could be pretty easy to spread because of this, and I always get sickeningly curious what would happen if I were to post things similar to age old 4chan troll posts, like the good old shrapnel spoon or mustard gas crystals, and simply edit the video to make it look like it'd work, since so many Tiktok videos seem to involve hard cuts. How many people would die?>>15667>the tiktok ban is a step in the right direction
Aside from the massive privacy violations backloaded into the bill.>Massive data collection is now the new normal, younger zoomers in particular have never known a world where this was not normal
It has nothing to do with age. Most people just simply don't care. It's weird how many times you find people of all ages complaining about mass surveillance and data collection on websites or platforms they've been on for years that, from the start, have been collecting data and doing mass surveillance. It's much more vague than the ridiculous 1984 bullshit where Orwell imagined two-way televisions so most people don't even take notice. I hope for your sake you don't use Windows, a Chrome-like browser, Firefox, Youtube, or anything else. Even just having a smartphone means you're being tracked, unless you keep it on airplane mode all the time. Also don't live inside of the United States because the people making that bill are the same people who have been keeping watch on millions without telling them.
Unfortunately, I don't think IBs have truly been primarily occupied by core "forum user"-type people for years at this point.
I'm glad its not just me. I thought I was going bonkers.
I've been browsing forums since 2012 and the internet in general since 2008. Tiktok gives me old YouTube vibes because of the amount of original content on there. That, or the old recommendation algorithms just can't compete with TikTok.
There's so many times where I google search something and can't find an answer, but I'll search the same query on Tiktok and find others asking the same thing or answering it.
That's interesting. I hear people say that if google don't have the answer you seek, look it up on reddit. First time i hear to look it up on tiktok, but I guess the principle is the same. The only thing changing is the way the media is presented. (I personally prefer reading an answer, saves me the trouble to watch a small video in its entirety.)
>>15852>I hadn't realized people over 13 years of age were using TikTok. Let alone IB posters…
This is a bit of an unpopular opinion, but "imageboarders don't use X" social media has never been true. Even some of the very oldest post on 4chan were cross posting social media drama, which one would only be aware of if they used said social media. They may not main other social medias or be obsessed with them, but they have other accounts at least.
Do you know how absurd it is to the casual image board user to cut out all other social media because of some circle-jerked complaints? Like they couldn't find some niche useful community on big social media. >The brain-sluding speed, the industrialized attention-seeking content, and temporary-ness of the videos, it depresses me…Isn't TikTok the antithesis of places like these?
And my nuclear take 4channel and most imageboards are exactly this. The average imageboard has posts I can read in under the length of a tiktok. Adding images and one word replies imageboards are as hyper stimulating as tiktok. The level of debate engaged on 4channel is usually no higher, if not way worse, than other social media.
Your description of tiktok describes the average bait poster on 4chan. >It's how the videos blurt out again on repeat without input, how text is spoken out to you as if you couldn't read, it's just…. disrespectful to all of my senses. I
First is a mild irk and second is because most people watch tiktok in public areas without headphones, so subtitles are added.
Tiktok seems to be popular in all age ranges, then. I've seen a lot of older people use it. My mom loves it. Contrast with Youtube, I've never seen old people use it at all. I am in your Sushichan user age range, but I suppose I don't socialize enough in real life to know or see others my age watching TikTok.
I think when imageboards emerged, most users were also 20-25, likely younger. We only expect IB users to be older because imageboards have been around for a long time and are somewhat old-fashioned. So I don't think that imageboards naturally appeal to older people now, just that younger people gravitate towards newer/faster methods of socialization online.
The young generation using IBs implies to me those are users who are looking for alternatives to modern social media and the way it operates. You wouldn't spelunk down the deepest corners of the internet, coping with all the shit that gets posted on most imageboards, to find this place otherwise, right? Which is why it intrigues me that so many sushi rolls seem to consume and enjoy TikTok content regularly while also knowing about and browsing these decade-old bulletin board analogues. Imageboards in the current year seem to be counter-culture in nature. Don't tell anyone about this, but I am a Lainchan tourist, so my take on this might be twisted.
But you are right sushi, people can have varied tastes. I still love you, even if you use TikTok on your spare time. I just want you to know that.
(cont.)>>15860>>"imageboarders don't use X" social media has never been true[…]
I don't think so either, certainly not a rule, but it's undeniable imageboards have always been tied to media counter-culture. Mainly because of the sushi rollymity aspect. Chans clearly seek to build their own communities outside the mainstream, otherwise they would just be communities inside those mainstream sites. And as IBs have become more niche, most of them have drifted even further away from mainstream. So I don't think that statement is entirely incorrect in the general sense.
>>my nuclear take is that 4channel and most imageboards are exactly this [brain-sludging speed, attention seeking content,…]
Somewhat depressingly, modern 4channel certainly is. That's why no one takes it seriously anymore. I'm not old enough to tell you if old 4chan was any better though, maybe it was always like that, and most oldfags might be nostalgia-blinded. But most altchans I know do not fit that description, sushichan included. There are threads here that one could spend hours diving down into. Your average blogpost takes several minutes to read, depending on your reading speed, and maybe you'd be compelled to reply with an argument or advice that could take many more minutes (hell, a post can take me days) to write. You really can't compare slow imageboards to TikTok at all.
>>First is a mild irk and second is because most people watch tiktok in public[…]
My examples were nitpicky because that's the point. All those little details that you know are for maximizing your attention on the screen add up for an uncomfortable experience, at least for me. Having that baked into the experience and not the content is the weird part, I think.
A lot of people in the thread keep saying using TikTok is no more of a privacy or security risk than any other social media, but this sounds like copium to me. How can you say TikTok has the best, unprecedented algorithm out of all social media sites and then also say it's nothing special and "just like all the others"?
The question of security or privacy aside, what happened to the concept of serendipity? I think I dislike TikTok because it doesn't give me that feeling of organically bumping into something by accident while you're browsing or perusing the web that I really liked back in the early days of the Internet. Or occasionally bumping into something completely out of your wheelhouse that you nonetheless end up liking or hating. Tbf tho I'm a Zilennial so maybe that experience is more important to me.
Lol, I had it for a little while. Not long enough for the algorithm to figure me out much. I have used Youtube Shorts, and it fed me A LOT of chronic illness content, despite me being perfectly well. I assume it would be similar on TikTok, so I stay off of it. I just know myself and know I would allow myself to surrender too much to the algorithm. I figure it's better to stay off of it, but that still makes me a bit of hypocrite because I use Facebook and Youtube a few times a week. The problems people have with TikTok are present on every social media now, so banning TikTok isn't going to solve much. I dunno about anti-Chinese jingoist rhetoric though… I think that's a bit of a reach.
Financial Times reporter that wrote about TikTok was surveilled by ByteDance to track down her internal sources, apparently:https://www.ft.com/content/0c0f9670-2e3a-4af8-bcd5-85e314f6ac5e
Unique to TikTok? Probably not. But TikTok's dataset *is* uniquely powerful.
TikTok is way too fast for me. It seems really addictive so I avoid it. I don't really like it all that much, but from time to time you see that spirit of wacky creativity that drove places like 4chan and 2chan back in the day, which is nice. Other than that it has all the disadvantages of a massive social media platform. I stick to forums and IBs because I never had friends growing up so I had no incentive to use Facebook. I tried it once, never went back.
you have an overly negative opinion about tiktok and an overly nostalgic opinion on imageboards. you need to experience some form of ego-death unironically and accept all forms of media with an open mind. there's nothing better or worse about imageboard culture than there is about video-based social media and culture
there was an asshole named Adorno in the 1900s that thought TV was rotting people's minds and would never be high art compared to literature, do you think he could ever appreciate works of art like the Godfather or White Lotus? White Lotus is such an expertly crafted social commentary that Adorno would be on his knees apologizing to the producers if he was alive today. Because he was so closed-minded a whole world of media was closed off to him.
Admittedly, during his lifetime, TV shows kinda sucked. But my point is you shouldn't judge media purely based off its format.
I'm a bit sick of the tiktok love fest here.
I don't think it's necessary to do anything for so little gain actually, especially not so extreme as ego death. Whatever your personal experience, Tik Tok has terrible effects intrinsic to its format. The two most obvious ones can't be separated from its form itself, the attention span shredding endless short form battering of stimulus, and, despite the effusive outpouring of love for it, the algorithm itself. Algo-served content feeds are not making you a more cultured person, they're sapping you of vitality, staring into the void constantly is not good.
Even at their worst, at least you're only dealing with humans and humans alone with imageboards, but I'd tend to agree overall, they aren't that much better or worse.
I'm glad you mentioned geopolitics, I'm Taiwanese
If capitalists use data for unjust enrichment in democratic countries such as Taiwan, they may be found by regulators.
This is why it is difficult to verify whether the personal information of Americans has been used to harm Americans in authoritarian China. I think they actually do
They will cover criminals intentionally or unintentionally, which is very common in Taiwan,
There is a funny joke that if you commit a crime, you will flee to China, and if it is related to national security, you will even shelter the suspect
And we do have politicians who took bribes and absconded to China, and US professors who were paid by China to participate in their scheme to steal foreign business secrets
Some media outlets have been bought to publish false information in order to influence the election. False information really affects people's willingness to vote for whom
They are unscrupulous in AI collecting information, because China has no legal restrictions, as long as they *want*
Thanks for reading my post sushi, and for sharing your perspective. I think most of us are geographically pretty far from China, which can make the regular political goings-on of a country harder to grasp. So your perspective is really important.
> US professors who were paid by China to participate in their scheme to steal foreign business secrets
This one blew my mind when I learned about it, there are some 'war stories' about consumer electronics and semiconductor manufacturing that really changed how I saw research and industry. AI research today isn't much different.
> But my point is you shouldn't judge media purely based off its format.
Why not? I get what you're trying to say about outspoken anti-TV advocates speaking too soon about something that is now considered a net social good by most people, but research is *specifically* being done by companies like ByteDance to addict people and collect personal information. Lots of these papers are public. The format of TV as a whole had no such parallel. To me, this is an apples and oranges situation– "people thought TV was bad too!" feels kinda hollow when TikTok is beyond being a new frontier and is a presently a massively successful commercial product.
If you collect the personal information of a country's nationals, you can use it for AI training
Like creating fake news that is good for China
For example, China used a lot of false information to accuse the US of creating the COVID virus
I mean that argument could be applied to the internet as a whole. Sapping attention span away and not making anyone a more cultured person.
>>15895>social platforms vs media platforms
this is a great way to distinguish between the two, it's how I am going to think about it from now on
I guess the closest thing to a true combination of social and media would be something like snapchat. snapchat pushes customization and editing of the pictures and videos you send (generating media), however since its generally for a small audience the media generated is entirely within your social circles.
I still wonder what is it about imageboards that feel so "special" to me. Is it just nostalgia since I grew up browsing 4chan? Or is it because it feels thoroughly organic and anti-corporatized, since IBs generally don't make any money?
I think not having an algorithm is a big part why I like imageboards, I get to choose what to see entirely. No robot is deciding for me. It's an entire world of people's opinions to explore. Every single algorithm-based social networking site eventually becomes a media platform because passive consumers are where the money is.
>>15906>something like snapchat
Or like twitter? People use it to enjoy media by themselves, but unlike youtube and stuff- most people actually make replies, make their own tweets, and make friends. Whether that is a "media platform" or a "social platform" is kinda dependent on how you use it. Maybe that's why there's not usually such a distinction.
>what is it about imageboards that feel so "special" to me.
I really like the format of how replies work on IBs.
Like how I can link to posts in the middle of my own, and use greentext to quote specific sections.
I know the Quick Reply window hasn't always been around, but I like it a lot too. A nice box that lets me see and edit my whole post and put some effort into it. And I like the console font for typing. Oh and images to the left is way better than images above or below a post.
So I feel really comfortable making posts.
I've been a little discord-addicted lately and I miss IB posting.
Discord even tells people if I'm typing or not, I really don't like that. I even get made fun of for being on "typing…" for a long time, only to make a short post! I edited it a lot you know!
So far the imageboard format has also been my favorite, maybe it's just the one I'm most used to. I've been on Reddit lately, but it kind of bores me, and threads effectively die in a day or two, like the fastest 4chan boards where a thread may last hours at best. Discussion can't continue over the days or years. The one thing I like about reddit is that, in contrast to imageboards which are mostly all anime and videagaem and politics, you can find a wide variety of topics. You just don't find discussion on ancient greek poetry on any imageboard.
What I don't like about imageboards is that they are very, very hostile. I've said this kind of stuff on a couple of imageboards and I always get bitter strawman attacks about the "karma system" lol.
Of course, sushichan is different, it's like an oasis.
I agree with you. Reddit is very popular and perceived as safe, so it attracts people who would never go to imageboards. For example, the only subreddit I use is r/academicbiblical, which has a lot of genuine experts. I do think you can find advanced discussions on /lit/ and /his/, but there's so much bullshit that you need to already be well-read, whereas I feel comfortable going to academicbiblical for specific questions.
However, structurally I think the website is pretty bad. The voting system is terrible at organising posts because people use it as a "I agree with this" or "this was funny" button. Top posts are very often short and unhelpful (i.e. bad jokes or sitcom dialogue) or long and ponderous as a result. The redesign is anti-user, and I doubt they will maintain old.reddit forever. There are also other annoying cultural aspects of reddit like that people will try to win arguments by going through your post history.
Ultimately, a lot of problems with reddit and other social media boil down to that they have too many users. If you actually need algorithms or voting to sort posts, then it's already in the terminal stages. I genuinely think small imageboards are the ideal way to communicate on the internet. And like >>15908
wrote the traditional layout is nice.
>>15913>I use is r/academicbiblical, which has a lot of genuine experts
Yes, this exactly. I also defended Discord once because I could find very knowledgeable people on classical greek literature, phonology and corpus, whereas in 4chan and other imageboards you don't get any of that, at all. Even if there happens to be one of them, I figure they wouldn't bother writing a thoughtful response because *the very culture discourages these kind of posts.*
I also dislike the whole Reddit formatting, the heavy js, the sorting system, everything about it's UI, really. And much of the culture, too, to be honest. But the niche subs are nice.
Problem is, mention Discord or Reddit and people will focus on the negative aspects. People tend to think their own favourite format is the superior one in all aspects. But here on imageboards I find mostly retards pretending to be smart, and approaching everything with nothing but bitter negativity.
The reason I keep talking about this is that I've missed so much because of this self-reinforcing narrative which has kept me from actually trying these sites. I don't want this to keep others from finding actual constructive discussion which is largely absent in these sites (again not sushichan.)
>>15915> The reason I keep talking about this is that I've missed so much because of this self-reinforcing narrative which has kept me from actually trying these sites. I don't want this to keep others from finding actual constructive discussion which is largely absent in these sites (again not sushichan.)
Fellow victim of that particular mindset. I'm still reeling from it to this day. It ended up helping me become addicted to 4chan, even when I could feel myself becoming dumber and more bitter as I kept using it. I only started using Reddit recently, and while I'm not on there all the time, not being constantly exposed to culture war outrage rhetoric is nice.
I still prefer smaller imageboards though.
Do you recommend any good resources for learning about the history and philosophy of Buddhism?
Preferably video lectures?
not directly related but I started watching this lecture series, bit dry but very interesting:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY
As far as philosophy goes, best way to start in my opinion is to read the Tripitaka. There are plenty of great translations available for free online.
I could understand it to some extent. The way gen z spends time on tiktok and other dopamin-centric social media is truly dystopic.
>>15869>The question of security or privacy aside, what happened to the concept of serendipity? I think I dislike TikTok because it doesn't give me that feeling of organically bumping into something by accident while you're browsing or perusing the web that I really liked back in the early days of the Internet. Or occasionally bumping into something completely out of your wheelhouse that you nonetheless end up liking or hating. Tbf tho I'm a Zilennial so maybe that experience is more important to me.
Not exactly sure what a Zilennial is, but you've just described my entire philosophy on music discovery. I really dislike the idea that some algorithm is feeding me more of the same just because I like certain stuff (the majority of which I know because it was promoted to radio stations). I accept that radio is also curated, but it's curated by humans, either Deejays, listener input, or (regrettably) corporate headquarters which probably use an algorithm, but it's likely one driven by monetary interest rather than similarity to other songs. I kind of want to elaborate more, but I'm off topic for the thread and I keep deleting most of what I try to write because it doesn't make much sense, so I guess I'll just say that I also value the experience of discovering things by accident.
has anyone else experienced the tiktok algorithm get a LOT better in the last month or so? every single video I've seen on there has been fucking hilarious or really interesting or thought provoking
True, I'm a bit rusty. I honestly haven't been on a traditional imageboard very much in years. The sites I mostly use have radically different software which includes an edit function, even though the basic idea is mostly the same.
So, here's a fix'd repost:
Wasn't wanting to doublepost, but now I'm sucked in so here we go. I'll try to stay more to the topic this time though.
Disclaimer: I only have secondhand experience with social media, so I'm speaking as an observer of others' behavior.>>15906>I think not having an algorithm is a big part why I like imageboards, I get to choose what to see entirely.
I feel like you might be touching on something here. I had (well, still have, but the battery went into deep discharge) a nook tablet. My dad got one first, and I thought it was pretty neat so he got me one. I used to read a lot as a kid but kind of stopped after middle school; I thought an e-reader would make it convenient to read again since it could carry lots of books in a relatively lightweight package. The reality was that I didn't get much use out of it. We'd had a Newsweek subscription for decades, but when they went paperless, I found that looking through it on an e-reader just didn't allow me the freedom to browse the way a physical copy did. With the magazine I'd get my interest piqued just by seeing a headline and graphic while my dad was reading at lunch or in the car, but when I have to look at it on a small constrained screen, I lost the ability to skim. All I could do was view a thumbnail of each page, or look at titles in the table of contents.
My point being, I couldn't choose to go on a lark because something caught my eye. The format took that choice away from me. And I think it's that little choice that appeals to us, as humans. At any point if we feel we made the wrong choice, we can pull out before we waste more time. With tiktok having such short content though, I think the 'sunk cost' fallacy comes into play by the time people realize something is dumb, so they just keep going to the end and hope the next video is better. You've still lost those seconds though, and once you let the idea of sunk cost take hold, it snowballs.>>15895>I feel like there's a big difference between social platfoms (with media) such as IBs/discord/reddit, and modern media platforms like youtube/tiktok.
To me, "social media" specifies megasites which have become so ubiquitous that corporations are utilizing them as marketing tools. You're not going to see an Apple ad telling you to check out their thread on 4chan/g/ or their Q&A on reddit. Obviously the label doesn't fit the definition I'm using, but it seems to be the definition which is most accurate to how newspeople and politicians use the term.>you don't make friends on youtube.
I feel like there's a certain level of pressure to be sushi rollymous on places that allow it, which also makes it hard to make friends when there may actually be potential to do it in small places like this. Like I don't want people to think I'm being self-important if I post with a name, it's just that this is one the few places where I really feel comfortable interacting with people, and I'd like to make some friends if I could, but it's hard to think of 'sushi rollymous' as my friend. And of course I know not everyone is going to like me, but when the haters are all sushi roll, and so are the friendlies, how do you know if maybe the community isn't a good fit, or if one person just has a hate boner? So my only option is to go sushi rollymous as well and just melt away into the crowd, which is how I already feel IRL.>>15908>Discord even tells people if I'm typing or not, I really don't like that. I even get made fun of for being on "typing…" for a long time, only to make a short post! I edited it a lot you know!
I have a general use text file that I keep open in Notepad++ because I can take so long to compose replies that on some sites I've lost the entire thing because my session expired.
I don't use Tik Tok, but I watch Youtube shorts. Both are bad for you, in my opinion, but like most things, there are benefits. It's good to keep your mind of off the bad things in life, but when you have other things to do, not even work-related things, it's a waste of time. Your time is your to waste, though. Back when I was young, people used to say video games are bad for you and movies / TV shows are a waste of time. Nowadays, I think of it as the complete opposite. Video games are a great use of my time since it's generally entertaining and can have a great story. You can play a video game and come out more satisfied than before you played it. With TV and movies, there's no doubt those are "stories". I feel like stories are a valuable use of time. We've always told and enjoyed stories as humans, so I think of it like that. As long as you have fun, you're doing good. When something isn't fun, but addicting, like Tik Tok, then it becomes an abuse of technology and of yourself. You're not really enjoying your time watching Tik Tok, so it's not really worth your time. I consider these activities an abuse of technology, too. In the sense that it doesn't enrich your life / takes away from your life. You only have so much time on this earth, so it's best to enjoy it as much as possible.
I still abuse technology though. Don't feel too bad when you do too.
>Do you use social media?
No I don't, my friends say that I should, but it just gives me this sensation that they're fake as all hell. All of those pretty pictures that are clearly made to land a girl, it sickens me really.
>What do you think of TikTok?
Social media is the worst especially instagram and twitter.
For twenty years the reason given has universally been that when there's no identity attached to a post, then posts stand on their own merits. That you can't attack someone's character when they don't have one.
And I find it so disappointing that no one seems to be able to inspect claims like this. In the absence of identities, you'll just get one projected onto you; you get called names. Name-calling is core imageboard culture. And then, because you can't recognize the people you're talking to, all your conversations have zero context. Every single thread, you'll have to re-establish the basics of every discussion because in practical terms you're never talking to the same people, even if for literally decades you literally are. You just can't know. In order to bring people to the same page, you have two options: Either create a sticky, or create a general where the OP behaves like a sticky. Then the people who take part in generals become a suitable identity for projecting and the name-calling starts.
It's a pretty garbage system. The reason anyone ever really uses sushi rollymous boards is because it's easy. You don't need a username or a password, and very importantly you don't need to pay lowtax $20. That's the reason you're here, it's minimal commitment.
In the real world, sushi rollymity is useful in settings where people shouldn't be able to organize outsize of a moderated environment, such as Alcoholics sushi rollymous; in settings where human emotions may impede the function of the organization, such as jealousy in sex clubs; and in cases where identifying information might endanger someone, like with witness protection programs. Generally, whenever personal information is part of safety concerns.
>>17104> core imageboard culture
Core 4chan culture, although even there it does not always happen. And when it happens, it's usually some vague labels and wild guesses that don't truly explain who you are and what you did, and thus don't hold much water. Whereas in a non-sushi rollymous context, somebody can well remind you the actual things you said 10 years ago, and use all of your internet presence against you.
> and in cases where identifying information might endanger someone
This may well be the case for many posters, you know. The possibility of getting fired, disowned by your family, jailed or killed.https://nextshark.com/swiss-otaku-gets-fired-first-day-boss-finds-insane-twitter
I'm sometimes very reluctant to post certain things on the imageboards. Of course, somebody random won't recognize who I am, but people who know me IRL would probably be able to do it.
Maybe a generational thing, but I consider posting any personal information online a safety concern.
I feel like you're missing the point of imageboards in general though. It's like a masquerade, the appeal of not quite knowing who everyone is, the appeal of putting everyone on equal footing. Even if you try to project an identity on someone, in most cases you have nothing to back it up. The more you tie identities to posts, the more it leads to cliquey atmospheres with a handful of people dominating the discussions. Not that it doesn't still happen to some degree on imageboards, especially with tripfriends or boards that have secondary communities on other platforms, but it's far less pronounced.
Well, the fact that people aren't more comfortable sharing personal details sushi rollymously than pseudonymously on the internet demonstrates that sushi rollymity on imageboards isn't really a safety concern, unless the concern is other people finding out that you're posting on imageboards. That's the only reason anyone ever gives for not backing up their claims with some form of evidence, it would be recognizable.
Speaking of, projecting an identity onto someone is, logically, a perfectly valid way to deal with discussions on imageboards because nobody is able or willing to provide credentials which would map to credibility. I might not have a way to back up my claim of your identity, but you're not able to back up your claims either. Systematically, nothing gets to be credible if it's original.
Also, secondary communities are the norm outside of imageboards because other websites don't have group identity. Everyone uses most big websites, so the only reason you don't know that imageboard users do is because it isn't practical to tell others about your other exploits. People hate identity on imageboards, but being credited for what you make requires credentials. Just for wanting to share something the imageboards have grounds to call you names, because they perceive it as an attempt by you to establish identity for yourself while everyone else has submitted to their fate of being cattle camouflaged into each other. Yeah you're all equal. The point was making posting easy, though.
I'm sorry, but I have read your post several times and don't understand the meaning.
>>17113> the fact that people aren't more comfortable sharing personal details sushi rollymously than pseudonymously
The fact? I wouldn't call that a fact. Although, chatting with relatives and real-life acquaintances and talking with coworkers about work is about where my usage of non-sushi rollymous communication ends, so I don't have the personal experience to argue against the public pseudonymous communication (Facebook, Twitter, Reddit), experience which I'm currently not too keen on getting.
Theoretically speaking, if some stand-alone pieces of personal information scattered through numerous sushi rollymous posts do not allow one to identify another, the opportunity may present itself if it's revealed that the posts are authored by a single person. Thus, pseudonymous communication limits what one can safely share.
Besides, it's not just about other people finding out that you post on the imageboards, it's about them finding out what you post on the imageboards or a forum.
When was Japan 99% Buddhist? I thought Shinto was always the majority religion, with its social values being influenced by Confucianism.
You're right though, Eastern and Western attitudes are extremely different in this regard, especially when you compare Protestant societies to Confucian ones.