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/culture/ - arts & literature

"Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor." - Alexis Carrel
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File: 1545533207589.jpg (25.5 KB, 752x440, art vs stem.jpg)

 No.446

When the economy tanks, more people go to trade schools or study STEM as opposed to art. Studying art is seen as a bad financial decision. What kinds of cultural effects do you think this has, when art and literature are seen as frivolous?

My mom studied art because it's supposed to be enriching, even though it's not all about career goals. I was basically forced into a STEM major for economic reasons. It has a very clear career path, but that's about it.

Or do you think some good things can come of it?

 No.447

I don't things like art and culture have become frivolous, there's just a higher saturation of people with those skills now, and they have never been in as high demand as technology related jobs. Society simply values those skills more. Technological improvement exponentially helps people achieve things more efficiently. The effects are felt more immediately. I guess capitalism's drive to efficiency can be blamed for a lot of this.

Plus, education is often a massive investment, and one must consider the returns on that investment: the opportunity cost for going to school versus the next best alternative. Although an arts degree may be enriching, it wont always put food on the table, and you may have been better off just practising art in your spare time while working a job. Again, this is a systemic problem.

 No.448

They aren't really frivolous in my opinion, just not a good idea. When people can barely afford to eat, they won't be paying for art. They won't be commissioning murals or attending concertos. They simply have to pay for the most important things like food and housing.

I think paying money for art and entertainment is representative of how wealthy and healthy a country is. When people have enough money that paying for art doesn't bother them, they are doing well financially. I really don't think people who can't afford art should spend money on it, but that doesn't make art unimportant. Hence why I am a STEM major, art minor.

 No.449

>>447
>Studying art is seen as a bad financial decision.
That's because it is. As the other sushi said, it's hugely over saturated. The majority of people who do it end up with really low incomes. The only people who do well out of it are those who are both extremely dedicated and also talented. Even these people will in general find themselves in secure positions with good income, but that high position matches a pretty normal position in stem.

Historically it was mostly the upper echelons like nobility that would do any art because they could afford it.
There's also factors in each area of art but I won't ramble about that.

Finally, one thing most people don't like to admit is that unless you've been dedicated to something since a young age you will probably never be able to compete with those who have. Especially after school years pass. You're just in hobbyist territory then.

 No.450

I studied art. Yes it is a terrible decision and I regret it every day of my life. Completely useless from any financial standpoint. You're welcome sushiroll

 No.456

I appreciate art but it's definitely a bit of a saturated thing nowadays. Stuff like drawing animu & mango, as an example, it's almost a staple of the otaku culture, wanting to draw and publish their own mango.

You really have to stand out to pursue a career as an artist, especially freelance. The modern, effiency focused, capitalism driven world cares about results (as sushi >>447 mentioned); you must deliver them faster and better, cheaper than the others.

Unfortunately, to join say, an animation studio, going to college is a very risky endeavour, but not joining and you're underqualified. Maybe try looking for smaller companies to work in?

We all enjoy art, each with their favorite format (be it painting, literature, 3D, music, etc…). There will never be a lack of artists and I'm my honest and melancholic opinion, studying arts in college isn't all that worth it unless you already have a financial cushion. If you do already have a stable job you like, then go for it. If you enjoy it, that's what matters.



Ultimately, art is just another victim of consumerism, particularly in the digital and audiovisual medium. It's made to sell. Artists are PR machines at this point. "Classic stuff" like writing, painting and drawing, to a certain point, is becoming less valued, it would seem. But trust me: whenever I give a painting I made to someone, particularly portraits, the look on their faces is something else. You just feel it, the distinction between mass produced stuff and something with personal value.

The point I'm trying to make with the last paragraph is that you should continue doing it as a hobby. Something which you are intrinsically motivated to do. Don't regret not pursuing a career out of it. Eventually it would become something you'd do just for the sake of survival rather than enjoyment.

 No.457

I feel like studying art has little correlation with actually being able to create enjoyable or meaningful art. If anything it seems like arts academics only become obsessed with ugliness, measureless relativism and the destruction of meaning.

If you just mean learning the tools of the trade, well, I guess it depends what you do with it. There's certainly high demand for talent in media production & editing. Would you call that art? It's a bit of a different world to painting, sculpture etc.

 No.522

File: 1558674125297.jpg (1.63 MB, 3703x2971, Salvador_Dali_A_(Dali_Atom….jpg)

I study graphic design which is probably the best option I could have taken without wanting to kill myself constantly. I think it's pretty promising, especially compared to studying traditional arts.
The kind of stuff that I study is more geared toward using art for commercial purposes, for example posters, logos, and websites. As long as there are companies, there's somebody that needs those things.
I'm still in school, so obviously I can't claim to know anything about how this will turn out in the long run. But alongside doing design work I am also getting better at drawing in general, which was always a goal for me. I would have really hated it if I went into a STEM field.

 No.523

>>522
Studying Graphic Design is a great way to study art and still invest into a career. In a similar way, studying Music Tech instead of Music Performance can give you a lot more options.

 No.606

Treat Art as a hobby until you actually feel you could make it as an artist. You need to market yourself and have different sources of revenue if you want to make a living (having a patreon, ko-fi page, get commissions online). It can be very difficult but if you can stand living a Bohemianism type lifestyle, then maybe it's worth it for you.

 No.607

>>457
How do I become an artistic person? I thought I needed to study in academia to learn to appreciate art, but lately I've grown mistrustful of academics, seeing as they have a vested interest in making their work as inaccessible as possible, so as to preserve their monopoly over interpretive authority.
And more importantly, it seems like a lot of artistic people don't see themselves as following in a particular academic tradition per se, but instead just express their own individual identity and conceptions of the world. Do you just have to be a genius? Should I give up on developing taste? If I was genuinely passionate about art I probably would have done something with my life by now, instead of just endlessly consuming.

 No.608

>>607
Make something and show it off on the internet and ask what people think. Or write about what you think about something someone else has made and ask people what they think of what you think. "Appreciating art" seems like a more confusing goal to me than producing art.
You probably already have tastes in what you like about other peoples works, it's just learning to recognize those tastes and create based on them. Pay attention to your emotions and try to feel what they represent and what they could be represented by.

 No.609

>>608
99% of my emotions are just confusion and doubt. I'll watch a film or something and walk out not having understood a thing. I'm ready to just give up trying to understand things without having them explained to me–I feel like I'll never produce anything original at this rate.

 No.610

>>607
Don't trust academics with art. I'm not going to say art is subjective, it's got a lot of rules and structure to it a lot of people ignore. If you want to get better the best you can do is learn the fundamentals. Nobody's a genius with art and the 'big names' that crop up are usually just experienced and landed a lucky job as a concept artist or appealed to some rich guy's fetishes.
Taste however is subjective. Learn what you like to see and like to make.

But to be actually useful and give some starting advice:
Always use references and draw with your eyes and not your brain
Learn perspectives (A strong perspective takes a boring scene and makes it cool, imagine all those promo images of a person extending their hand towards the camera for example)
Play with tools but don't get expensive stuff. Pencils are good for learning and sketching, pens for strong lines, colors are something you just gotta learn how to use.
Color theory. Learn it.
Don't have shame in looking for help but don't ask general people their opinions on your art. Ask people who do art for critique, they'll give actual advice.
Learn how to do proportions. The standard is the 6 head model.
Once you learn how anatomy works you can play with it (This is incredibly fun)
Composition is important for most things. There's a few ways to do it, the Golden Spiral is one of the tried and true for a reason but grids also work well.
Learn what you want to make. Do you want to make anime, your own cartoon style, realistic, a blend, maybe you want to work with paint or with markers, hell you might like making pixel art or tiny but detailed images with pen. Experiment as you learn, never know what might click.
If characters is your jam look into character design.
And of course use tutorials and study existing art you like. Pick it apart bit by bit until you understand it and try to work from it.

 No.611

>>609
Could be you don't know that many symbols and allusions that are used… But all the same, most of most stories is just "Characters want outcome a, but circumstance b is preventing it! Oh no! Lucky they figure b out by the end". You get that stuff right? Like you could describe the characters and what they did? That's more important than symbolic faffing about in my opinion.
… you could try portraying confusion in art.

 No.612

>>446
I personally find subjects such as art, philosophy, and music to be incredibly important to humanity. Quite frankly, a large number of jobs don't require a college degree, much less one in STEM. All it takes is a decent head on your shoulders.

In fact, working in IT I have discovered people who major in any arts or philosophy to be far better than someone with a computer science degree. It takes a lot of creativity and abstract thinking to be exceptional in that field. Not someone who was only ever taught how to follow a process and think in a straight line.

 No.624

File: 1578489495565.jpg (5.33 KB, 300x168, index.jpg)

I think the average IQ of an artist has dropped because only passionate and stupid go into art. 70% of those in art colleges are often stupid because unless you got to the cream of the crop art school most art college are degree mills. A lot of people I see going to art schools are the 'I wasn't really sure what to do in college (I'm a slacker with no fore thought), but my friends said I was good at art (they usually are a big fish in a small pond, lack a grasp on fundamentals, and turd polished their way to 10,000 Instagram followers) and I like art (they like doodling art for their forgiving audience that lets them slack on their comics month on end, refuse criticism, and start shit. They would burn and crash in an actual job), so I'll go to an art school'. The only places willing to accept these types are degree mills who wont really prepare them. Stuff like pic related want to make art their career
The other 30% know what their doing and if they get into a top college they can connect enough so they can get the job they want. The other half art stuck on instgram/youtube as hobbyist who will have hard time getting professional work because they lack connections. If you look black comics, cartoons, and the like were a wild west, but now it's don't have '50 connections? Go away'.
The biggest effect I see is the 'starving artist donate to my ko-fi' will increase. As I said 705 of artist are stupid so they will suck at budgeting their limited funds, get fired from any real job, and refuse to listen to criticism. A lot of kids get high off their blind fanbase giving them commissions, but aren't ready when they become 20 and selling pic related isn't a good career choice.
This is all the digital art, and not the modern art community.

 No.626

>>446
inevitably the whole trade school meme is going to self implode because the reason trade schools were so cheap, and trade pay decent, is because nobody was going to them in the first place. Now that trade school is starting to become a popular option due to redditors constantly shilling it, the pay will decrease and the price of the schools will increase because of the increased supply of students.

 No.671

To many people will cause a bubble to burst like the other sushi roll said, but we also can't forget what trade does to the body. Being a welder, constructor, or lineman sounds good till all that hard work- climbing, carrying, smog - catches up to you in your late 30's to early 40's. Do you know how fucked the economy and the children will be one they're stuck caring for for their parents at age 40? Also trade people are hit the hardest when the economy tanks if I recall correctly

 No.687

Do art as a hobby instead, no one needs an art degree to do it

 No.878

>>446
Studying art is a bad financial decision because a) everything you need to know is available for free online and b) art isn't a subject that school teaches well. It's a subjective medium where improvement means better technique as opposed to better results, and where you do most of your learning slowly by trial and error



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